Are indoor tracks faster than outdoor tracks? Nick Willis says yes*. What say you?

which is it? wrote:

My $.02 wrote:

I don't think so. All of the Men's running world records are slower indoors and by significant amounts.

Event Indoor WR Outdoor WR

400 - 44.57 44.13

800 - 1:42.67 1:40.91

1500 - 3:31.18 3:26

Mile - 3:48.45 3:43.13

2000 - 4:49.99 4:44.79

3000 - 7:24.9 7:20.67

2 Mile - 8:04 7:58

5000 - 12:49.6 12:37.35

Amazing performances at a time that is considered off-season and when athletes are nowhere near top condition.

Indoors isn't considered off season for a lot of top guys. How do you know they weren't in top condition?

My $.02 wrote:

Indoors isn't considered off season for a lot of top guys. How do you know they weren't in top condition?

Yes it is. Are you kidding? Look at the all-time list for the 1500 or 800. It is extremely lacking in many if not most of the big names.

The indoor season is short.

The fastest outdoor 1500m time ran before July is 3:29.20 (Jun 20), (3 s slower than the WR)

Look at the people that set those indoor records and look at their preparation for those records and their competition.

Now compare it with their outdoor season.

College runners don't race over the summer when the fast races are run and have a fairly equal amount of fast indoor attempts as outdoors.

Nick Willis is trying to see how fast he can run indoors if he gears his training towards it.

Those indoor record holders were still gearing their peak fitness for outdoors.

If Willis beats his outdoor PR indoors, it will be a world record.

He's over 30 so we'll see what he has left.

Anyway, he won't get many attempts.

My $.02 wrote:

Indoors isn't considered off season for a lot of top guys. How do you know they weren't in top condition?

Which guys?

44.13??

The 400 meter world record of 43.18 was set by MJ in 1999.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

'Yes. They are for tons of reasons. Every college season where 30 guys break 4:00 indoors and only 15 break the equivalent outdoors (despite that they should be in better shape) proves this. Galen Rupp running 3:50 also supports this. I think Nick will find it still applies to his pace, especially since the bank on the track can be adjusted.'

Check the WR lists

28 college guys broke 4:00 this indoor season. 42 college guys broke 3:42.99 or faster this outdoor season.

We need to put some marathoners on an indoor track.

Of course, it should be easier to come back from a lap down.

PS: I know it has been done, but I'm too lazy to look up any results.

out of town wrote:

28 college guys broke 4:00 this indoor season. 42 college guys broke 3:42.99 or faster this outdoor season.

I thought 3:42.2 was the generally accepted equivalent.

out of town wrote:

28 college guys broke 4:00 this indoor season. 42 college guys broke 3:42.99 or faster this outdoor season.

Probably because 3:42.99 for 1500 is worse than 4:00?

IAAF/Purdy equivalent is about 3:41.4... (14 guys did that outdoor). Even if that's not generous enough, 3:42 is a better equivalent which only 21 did.

People who are using the NCAA to say indoors is faster are way off base.

1. Most of the fast indoor distance times come from OVERSIZED tracks. In the mile it's only about 1/3 of the fastest times, but in the 3k and 5k it's at least 2/3s.

2. An outdoor track on a perfect windless day is better than an oversized indoor track. This is obvious because the turns are more gradual and neither is banked.

Now as to WHY people tend to run faster indoors than outdoors in the ncaa, I have lots of theories. Mainly that a lot of people get burned out and tired by the end of outdoor season (despite telling themselves that they are training to peak in June, they actually peak in late February and never recover all the way). Also that times matter more indoors for qualification and because you have very few chances for both nice weather and a fast pace (non-tactical) outdoors. The main exception is Stanford and people run faster there than they do at Husky.

As to whether banked 200m tracks can be just as fast as outdoor tracks ... I'm not sure. I think they can be close.

105 or so laps wrote:

We need to put some marathoners on an indoor track.

Of course, it should be easier to come back from a lap down.

PS: I know it has been done, but I'm too lazy to look up any results.

Dude, if it were run like NYC, Jeptoo would have come back from at least FIVE laps down to win...

Hardloper wrote:

out of town wrote:

28 college guys broke 4:00 this indoor season. 42 college guys broke 3:42.99 or faster this outdoor season.

Probably because 3:42.99 for 1500 is worse than 4:00?

IAAF/Purdy equivalent is about 3:41.4... (14 guys did that outdoor). Even if that's not generous enough, 3:42 is a better equivalent which only 21 did.

Actually 29 ran under 3:42.00 during the regular NCAA season.

That's not counting those who ran faster during the summer season.

For the 800, the twentieth best time indoors was 1:48.69, for outdoors it was 1:48.34.

It's hard to argue indoors is faster when empirical results show otherwise. That said, indoors is definitely faster if the wind is blowing hard outside or if it's freezing cold or driving rain.

i use ncaa app

download here at your own risk

( i did months ago & no problems )

http://www.fileguru.com/NCAA-Altitude-Conversion/info

i think there is some juxtaposition in some of conversions, because the numbers indoors/outdoors work "perfectly" imho if you use

flat -> banked/over

1'42.67i -> 1'41.22

which is virtually spot on with kip's outdoor wr on cursory view

add on the drafting he didn't get in that solo effort indoors & non-suicidal 23.0/48.3 of his 1'41.24, the above conversion isn't miles away from the

mid-1'40 perhaps even low

shape he was here if he'd got 24.0 / low/mid-49 in zurich & rested priot to that 1'42.67i rather than 1'43.96iwr in his legs from 2/7 before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYVlFh49ASM

it also gives a 3'50.92i ( rupp ) as

3'48.01

a 3'48.01 converts to 3'31.12 outdoors using standard 1.08

does anyone think that's waaaay out considering his training partner, who was supposed to have only marginal better speed ( if any ) ran

3'28.8

???

ventolin^3 wrote:

it also gives a 3'50.92i ( rupp ) as

3'48.01

a 3'48.01 converts to 3'31.12 outdoors using standard 1.08

does anyone think that's waaaay out considering his training partner, who was supposed to have only marginal better speed ( if any ) ran

3'28.8

???

Yes, it's waaaay out, considering Rupp ran a 1500 and a mile outdoor himself, and did not come close to "3:48.01" or even his own 3:50.

For the 400, the fiftieth best time indoors was 47.03, for outdoors it was 46.36.

The numbers say outdoors is faster.

Hardloper wrote:

Look at the all-time list for the 1500 or 800. It is extremely lacking in many if not most of the big names.

Hicham El Guerrouj and Wilson Kipketer?

out of town wrote:

For the 400, the fiftieth best time indoors was 47.03, for outdoors it was 46.36.

The numbers say outdoors is faster.

400 meters? You do understand that the centripetal force required to run a tight turn is going to increase with the velocity squared, right?

Cheer up, BRO! wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Look at the all-time list for the 1500 or 800. It is extremely lacking in many if not most of the big names.

Hicham El Guerrouj and Wilson Kipketer?

Hardloper wrote:

Cheer up, BRO! wrote:

Hicham El Guerrouj and Wilson Kipketer?

You're right, you just listed many, if not most, of the big-name 800 and 1500 runners of the last three decades right there.

Yeah, you're right, I'm sure if Fermin Cacho or Venuste Niyongabo or whoever had just taken indoor more seriously one of them would have dropped a 3:25.