Seriously, what do you think of adults that don't have a 4-year degree (at least)?

"Outliers"...that word doesn't mean what you or Malcolm Gladwell think it means...though he does resemble Cam Levins.

Outlier: An outlying observation, or outlier, is one that appears to deviate markedly from other members of the sample in which it occurs.I think it means exactly what they think it means. What do you think it means?

Mikethomas66 wrote:

"Outliers"...that word doesn't mean what you or Malcolm Gladwell think it means...though he does resemble Cam Levins.

Oh good idea...try to prove a point by cherry-picking three really big-time outliers. Dope.[/quote]

Firstly stop writing dope

Now take a look a the millions of idiots with degrees

Oh good idea...try to prove a point by cherry-picking three really big-time outliers. Dope.[/quote]

Firstly stop writing dope

Now take a look a the millions of idiots with degrees

Oh good idea...try to prove a point by cherry-picking three really big-time outliers. Dope.[/quote]

Firstly stop writing dope

Now take a look a the millions of idiots with degrees

The great Billy Mays (RIP) didn't have a degree, and that didn't stop his pitchman genius.

I think adults who don't have some kind of post high school education are idiots. For some that means trade school. For others, an AA and working into a family business of some kind. But for everyone, I think you must have additional education past high school in order to compete successfully in the world. That doesn't necessarily mean a 4 year degree.

One of my better friends is a plumber. He did do post-HS education in that he earned welding certificates required to do much of the contracting work he was interested in doing. He is happy doing the work that he does, has to turn down many of the calls he receives because he is very busy ... and best of all he makes a lot of money doing it.

I agree with the poster who points out that social pressures can dictate poor decisions. What you do after earning your HS diploma should be directed towards what you would like to do with your life. It's always been difficult to have your compass set at the age of 18; it's even more difficult when you have spent your teen years with your face planted on video game action or on your smartphone screen. You must LIVE life in order to know what you want from it.

It doesn't help when our culture lives with the concept of debt. If you want something NOW you get it NOW ... and to hell to what I already have on my credit card. Another car loan? Sure, why not. Since we live in a culture of debt, an 18 year old thinks it's the norm, and figures "what the hell" without realizing (truly) what that means on the back end. Adults need to intervene, and assist with making these decisions. Those of us who have gone through getting a college degree know that, in the end, the piece of paper from STATE-U gets the job done (nearly, if not completely) as effectively as the piece of paper from IVY-U.

And there is also an idea that college guarantees a solid financial future. It did when earning a four year degree was unique, and it no longer unique.

Some of them are smart but maybe just didn't have money or want to waste time going to school

But Many of them on average are unfortunately morons who believe strongly in The Lord and watch fox news

I judge people by their intelligence not their degree(s) (or lack thereof). There are plenty of bores in this world with Ivy League degrees. I'd rather spend time with a witty auto mechanic than a tedious, self-important twit like yourself.

I have a college degree--that happened to be my path of choice. Others, perfectly bright people, chose other paths. If someone didn't go to college but is successful and happy in her/his career, that's not idiotic--that's pretty smart. When people are pressured to think that college is the only acceptable choice after high school, you get students who are bored, marking time, not taking it all that seriously. A degree is not proof of intelligence, nor is lack of one proof of stupidity.

fcdididi wrote:

M.C. Confusing wrote:

Did you miss the "former" in the title? In fact one of the main reasons he puts out for not going to college is the cost-benefit ratio, and he puts the blame for the ridiculously high cost of college squarely on the government.

How is it the government's fault that college costs so much?

The U.S. government intervenes in the student loan industry by guaranteeing loans and not forcing students to begin repaying until after graduation. The reasons for this are obvious but, if the government wasn't involved, banks would be unwilling to loan anywhere near as much money to students and universities would be forced to drastically roll back tuition rates. Under the current system, it's the banks who are profiteering immensely by government-backed loans and the students (at least those who graduate with big debt) who are being forced into servitude. The notion that student loans HELP students is one of the biggest myths out there.

If the government were to cut off all funding for student loans other than possibly scholarship money, we would see the education bubble begin to deflate while the value of a degree would increase and graduates would be far more sought after by industry.

As somebody who graduated a few years back with a degree in the Earth Sciences, I don't know that I would make the same choice again. If I could do things over, I would either work my butt off and earn an engineering degree or go to trade school and become an electrician. People sneer at the trades but many of the jobs in this sector require more problem-solving skills than the average white collar job, as well as an entrepreneurial spirit. At least I was smart enough to graduate university without debt, through working, scholarships and living within my means, so not finding a good job upon graduation wasn't devastating.

dpmrunner wrote:

I have a college degree--that happened to be my path of choice. Others, perfectly bright people, chose other paths. If someone didn't go to college but is successful and happy in her/his career, that's not idiotic--that's pretty smart. When people are pressured to think that college is the only acceptable choice after high school, you get students who are bored, marking time, not taking it all that seriously. A degree is not proof of intelligence, nor is lack of one proof of stupidity.

This.

Financial reasoning, government help/regulation, and debts aside.

Uh huh. Based on what you just said, it's NOT the government's fault that college is expensive. They can't MAKE colleges charge less money.

fcdididi wrote:

Uh huh. Based on what you just said, it's NOT the government's fault that college is expensive. They can't MAKE colleges charge less money.

Yes they could. They could pass a law that said something like, "No educational institution will charge tuition of more than $5000 per semester", or whatever price they liked. You can't buy labor for less than $7.25/hr.; if they can put in a floor there's no reason there can't be a ceiling.

And what he described, if true, does mean that the government has some role in the high price of college.

fcdididi wrote:

Uh huh. Based on what you just said, it's NOT the government's fault that college is expensive. They can't MAKE colleges charge less money.

Governments heavily subsidize the student loan industry. Banks are willing to hand over six figure student loans to college students because they know that the loans are government-backed and, when the students don't pay the loans back, the government will come to the rescue. It's not much different than the housing bubble, which was also partly caused by the government trying to push home ownership on the masses. Now, the housing market has crashed and the government is pushing a university education on the masses. The same result is inevitable and is already happening, frankly, with many students defaulting on their debt or looking for the government to forgive their ill-advised loans.

Like I said before, if the government stopped "helping out" with student loans, banks would never offer these huge loans to students unless they're confident that the students will be able to repay (or that the government will bail them out). With banks no longer offering easy loans, fewer students will enroll in programs that have low job prospects and most universities (maybe not the Ivy League) will drop their tuition so that students can attend without taking on huge debt.

Interesting

When do you think it will crash?

You would be surprised at how many 4-year grads go to a community college to get a degree in tech or allied health so they can actually get a job.

My son went to work at a copper/brass foundry after earning an associates degree in accounting. He loves his job, and makes almost as much as me. He also has health, dental, pension and a 401k plan. The company has been running 24/7 for 100 years, and was closed down once in the 1950's.

What did he have to do to get in?

1) Pass a 9th grade math and 11th grade English test. That eliminated 75% of the applicants.

2) Show up to an interview with a multitude of forms filled in. That eliminated some more.

3) Pass a drug test. That eliminated a whole lot more.

4) Show up to another interview.

5) Pass a physical fitness test.

Out of 120 applicants only 6 were hired. The best thing I did for my son was to get him a job on a farm when he was 16.

Will his A.S. in accounting be wasted? Nope. He is socking away 10k/year in his 401k, also has a fully funded pension, is 21 and doesn't owe anyone a dime. He is learning a lot about investing. He also has rebuilt two tractors and is restoring a 1971 Chevy dump truck. He knows a lot and works hard. He will always be employed.

For every example we post here like this, there are a lot more 4-year degree or beyond people making way more than your son is. These arguments are so stupid. If you want to make a lot of money down the road, and want to advance, ON AVERAGE AND FOR THE MOST PART, a college degree or beyond is required. My department won't even hire anyone without a college degree. I realize there are some special cases or technical fields that don't require a "4 year degree" but they require some post-HS education, such as a welder. But in MOST cases, for the average person, a degree and/or beyond is required.