Agree of disagree: H. England on 1500: "In the 1500m you have the opportunity for just 1 defensive move and 1 offensive"

franklin field wrote:

Not at all, very smooth race, particularly with the 300 meter stagger. Singh was dead in the water after his hero move to take the lead. No problem for Juanto to go around him, then sustain to the finish. Not all minor accelerations are "moves."

Juantorena changes gears significantly to pass Singh, he doesn't just cruise by him. He doesn't just sustain either - he has yet another gear to hold off Wohlhuter and times it perfectly.

That's what was so remarkable about Juantorena, he had the ability to accelerate several times and get away with it.

What Cruz 88 race are you talking about? The Olympics? Cruz sat in third the whole way, went for it just before 600 and had no answer when Ereng passed him. One move.

1500 guys, enough about Juanorena and Cruz.

I know he's not well liked but look at Makhloufi in last year's final.

He made a move on the straight heading onto one lap to go where he held off Kiplagat from going by and made Kiplagat stay wide.

That was a defensive move to maintain his position and keep from going wide, and forcing Kiplagat wide.

Then he relaxed a bit on the turn, gathering himself and holding his spot on Chepseaba's shoulder while Kiplagat hung back wide of him in lane two.

With 300 to go he made that one offensive move for home, driving all the way to the finish and putting distance on the field.

That crushed Kiplagat who had to work hard on the turn and Chepdeaba had nothing left to counter.

I must say it looked like he ran the last 500 as if the first 1000 had no effect on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry8GWJMpIVQ

Look at the 2011 World Championship.

Go to 500m to go.

Kiprop is in the lead.

He makes a slight move of picking up the pace going into the final lap where he holds his spot on the inside making the Ethiopian stay wide and Kiplagat again is in lane two.

I'd say that was a defensive move to hold position.

He relaxes on the turn and Kiplagat and the Ethiopian both go by him coming out the turn onto the back straight.

With 250 to go, Kiprop makes a big move to go by both of them on the inside.

He keeps that lead all the way to the finish.

His final margin of victory of Kiplagat looks about the length of a one turn stagger. Keep in mind Kiprop ran 1100-1200 on the rail while Kiplagat was in lane two.

He was doped to the gills of his gills.

His running style made that evident.

Google Seb Coe's post race comments - a pure miler.

I'm in the one move only camp, unless by defense you mean not making a move when others do.

There is a video of Mike Stahr winning the high school Millrose Mile. He makes about 12 moves. I would post it but I'm at work.

Randy Oldman wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Juantorena made three visible moves in the Montreal final.

But he ran fast the whole way in an Olympic final. Isn't that cheating?

Nobody runs like that anymore.

No ... Nobody. Except, of course, the entire Olympic Games men's 800m field in London 2012. :)

It's about your competition and your fitness.

All things being equal, you make one move during the race and another move down the home straight. Everyone should be able to change gears over the final 50-20 meters of the race, not doing so is egotism, lack of focus or improper preparations.

Sweeney wrote:

It's about your competition and your fitness.

All things being equal, you make one move during the race and another move down the home straight. Everyone should be able to change gears over the final 50-20 meters of the race, not doing so is egotism, lack of focus or improper preparations.

Egotism? Please explain.

HS. You can do whatever stupid tactic you want (take out super hard, give the leader 50ms) and make up for it by just being better. Stops working for most in college.

might be wejo wrote:

There is a video of Mike Stahr winning the high school Millrose Mile. He makes about 12 moves. I would post it but I'm at work.

Here you go

I don't no bout her running but I would like for her to sit on my face....

Offensive move: Kick as hard as you can with 700 to go.

Defense move: Try desperately to hang on when everyone is passing you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxUL7zz1nI

ukathleticscoach wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvciyIc9IMY

Here you go

This brings up the significant conceptual issue: not every acceleration is separate "move". Accelerating as necessary to maintain position once you've committed yourself to the lead is part of the move. If you give up position, then you likely wasted some of the effort to take the lead and have to make another move to get back in front.