Tim Danielson-New York Times extensive article

Reminds me of Alan Webb much more than it does Pre. Little stiff, robotic like. Barrel chested and even similar arm/hand movements.

Here's a great video of his 4:07 win in the 1966 CA State Meet. I had never seen any recording of him before and was amazed at how similar his physique, running form, and stride were to Pre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-RImae6ftA

Reminds me of Alan Webb much more than it does Pre. Little stiff, robotic like. Barrel chested and even similar arm/hand movements.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5089017#ixzz2NcwOEK7s

cool, thanks for the post.

Good observations I think.

A very sad situation because despite his shortcomings, he seemed to be a good guy and did his work. Materials engineering takes some smarts and he seemed very well liked at work.

Maybe he has an argument against the pharma that could save him from years in jail. But I would assume they will use the earlier restraining order taken out against him in a counter defense.

A Duck wrote:

I once, ONCE did 6x200 with 30 seconds rest, and hit all but one under 23.5. I thought that was pretty studly.

I think it is.

We did a high school 4 min mile workout in track that the coach called "Short and Sweet"; 8x220's at 1 min intervals.

Only a few of our team could do it under 4 min (and he had a team that went to states in cross country). Never me.

And our coach would always say after the last 200 as we were gasping, "Remember Jim Ryun, Liquiori and Daneilson while in high school did all 8 under 30 sec with no rest between."

I think a great workout for high schoolers to do once or twice a season, at least for some perspective.

Quote from the article "More than 2,700 lawsuits, now consolidated, were filed against Pfizer, the manufacturer of Chantix, alleging that the drug caused suicidal thoughts, aggressive and erratic behavior, depression and loss of memory. In recent months, Pfizer has settled two high-profile test cases while maintaining that the drug was safe to use."

He was a sold guy with some history of alleged gun threats against ex [during divorce]

but he was perscribed Chantix [above]

A lot of runner's struggle socially. I think many of them turn the energy that other's spend on social activities and devote it to running

NY times wrote:

(he was described) as professionally dutiful and socially awkward, a steady and reliable engineer, but also a shy man who struggled with alcohol and relationships, married three times and had a long-term companionship and a son with a woman who had been his pen pal when she was in prison.

Reminds me when a female friend of mine said, "I don't get why you runners try to act like studs. You are nerds, but women love nerds."

reader11 wrote:

here's what it takes to break 4:

His workouts would become known for their volume and ferocity. In high school, he trained twice a day, sometimes even three times. He recalled his weekly speed work during the track season: Monday, eight repeats of 440 yards; Tuesday, 20x220 yards (in 24 seconds); Wednesday, 40x110 yards; Thursday, a warm-up and strides; Friday, meet day; Saturday and Sunday, a 15-mile run.

When I read that, I think "Here's what it takes to break 4 and then never be able to do it again."

The #1 thing that a lot of people don't ask is, "Is your training repeatable."

Maybe you can do that by wrecking your body when you are 18, but how do you replicate it year after year. You have to be able to work WITH, not AGAINST your body in the long term.

And it looks like his college coach at BYU - Sherald Jamesm - agrees with me.

ny times wrote:

Danielson would insist on running 20 intervals of 440 yards, each in less than 60 seconds, at altitude, James said, or would augment a 10-mile run with seven or eight fast quarters on the track.

“I really liked Tim, thought he was a fine young man,” James said. “He was highly motivated. But great runners have the ability to destroy themselves. They won’t take halfway and be satisfied.”

Jack Frost wrote:

Here's a great video of his 4:07 win in the 1966 CA State Meet. I had never seen any recording of him before and was amazed at how similar his physique, running form, and stride were to Pre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-RImae6ftA

Reminds me of Alan Webb much more than it does Pre. Little stiff, robotic like. Barrel chested and even similar arm/hand movements.

Barrel chested.....mmmm...sounds like Pre to me.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5089017#ixzz2NcwOEK7s

Imagine a musician who is a One Hit Wonder at age 18. Not likely to have a pretty finale later in life. Also see: fate of child actors from "Different Strokes".

Hmmm. don't mean to undermine your post, but i beg to difer.i did 8x200m in 29-30 seconds each last night after a 4 mile tempo run w/ 30 seconds rest and i'm 30 yrs old, and only in about 16:45 5k shape. i would have been able to do 8x200 like you described in high school and i wasn't that goodin college, our 'test workout' before each track season was 25x200m in 28-29 seconds with 30 seconds jog rest on the indoor track. we could do it, it was hard, but doable. i was only a 4:15 miler,and 1:53 800m guy

Stating the obvious wrote:

[quote]

We did a high school 4 min mile workout in track that the coach called "Short and Sweet"; 8x220's at 1 min intervals.

Only a few of our team could do it under 4 min (and he had a team that went to states in cross country). Never me.

And our coach would always say after the last 200 as we were gasping, "Remember Jim Ryun, Liquiori and Daneilson while in high school did all 8 under 30 sec with no rest between."

I think a great workout for high schoolers to do once or twice a season, at least for some perspective.

rojo wrote:

When I read that, I think "Here's what it takes to break 4 and then never be able to do it again."

The #1 thing that a lot of people don't ask is, "Is your training repeatable."

Maybe you can do that by wrecking your body when you are 18, but how do you replicate it year after year. You have to be able to work WITH, not AGAINST your body in the long term.

I agree and the point that I was trying to make was his advice to high school runners was to do more than the coach prescribes. Seems like counter advice.

reader11 wrote:

here's what it takes to break 4:

His workouts would become known for their volume and ferocity. In high school, he trained twice a day, sometimes even three times. He recalled his weekly speed work during the track season: Monday, eight repeats of 440 yards; Tuesday, 20x220 yards (in 24 seconds); Wednesday, 40x110 yards; Thursday, a warm-up and strides; Friday, meet day; Saturday and Sunday, a 15-mile run.

Sweet Schedule

obviously he was in better shape than 8:55/1:53/50 when he broke 4. I doubt he ran small meets very hard considering his training schedule and state would be running for points.

T&F Historian wrote:

Here's a great video of his 4:07 win in the 1966 CA State Meet. I had never seen any recording of him before and was amazed at how similar his physique, running form, and stride were to Pre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-RImae6ftA

Reading the article, it seems to me this is the video Ralph Serna --one of the all-time CAL HS distance greats-- put together. Unlike other videos from that era the quality of this one is amazing.

Opinionated guy wrote:

Thanks.

I didn't see the 4:00, but assumed there must've been some progression between 4:07 & 3:59.

I was not suggesting his advice was wrong, just interesting provided it "may" have stunted his long-term progression. Everyhone who knew or saw him him run seem to have glowing things about his talent yet he was done shortly after high school graduation.

TD ran 4:06 as a junior. His 6.6 second improvement is no different than Webb's big jump to the HS mile record.

Video Dude wrote:

Reading the article, it seems to me this is the video Ralph Serna --one of the all-time CAL HS distance greats-- put together. Unlike other videos from that era the quality of this one is amazing.

Nearly 50yrs ago and those HS kids don't look much different than the HS kids today. Except for changes in uniforms and shoes, they could line right up with the best today. Danielson had good form for a HS kid - stong, solid stride. Damn good video.

I don't doubt TD's training. TD's 1966 California mile record? - it still stands after 47 years. That fact speaks louder than words. And I find it curious that visualization' isn't being discussed.

Visualization works.

Just some legal points to consider.

A poster below said that they could bring up the restraining order? I think it's possible for the defense to suppress that evidence since the person it was issued against has no legal say with TD actions were in other words - heresy. The Times article states, "California abolished the defense of diminished capacity after the so-called Twinkie defense was used to explain the 1978 shooting deaths of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and a city supervisor named Harvey Milk." I remember that case very well. However, Twinkies no longer exist and since when are pharmaceutical exempt from liability. The defense of diminished capacity needs to be scrutinized considering 'depressants, etc' have been central to people,"snapping" isn't a diminished capacity its insanity. This man tried to kill himself. This is a good article. I'm perplexed on the ignorant comments (posters) of some the NYT comments sections. The majority of people didn't even consider TD tried to also take his own life. Certainly, there are many historic cases where the person was successful then everybody pours over his/her life then rush to the bandwagon --- oh now I see why.

Personally, I think that its cruel and unusual punishment to be only allowed to walk around cafeteria tables in lieu of exercise. Talk about "The Man in Iron Mask".