Kenyans DO dope

I understand that, continuing to maintain my opinion, I can appear or completely stupid or somebody who wants to hide something, putting other people on a wrong track.

However, I'm really surprised from this situation. I knew there is some doctor (local doctor) thinking to earn money with second level athletes competing in domestic road races where there is not control. But NEVER I heard of some top athlete involved in the idea of doping.

May be my group is an ecception, but I don't think so.

In my group, I had World Record Holder as Shaheen, and athletes like Nicholas Kemboi running 26'30" after staying with me in Switzerland for 2 months (he moved from 28'19"), and we were in the same room, so I very well know he ran that time completely clean.

So, my question is : if Nicholas was able to do this clean, why I have to suppose other athletes weaker than him has to get some drug for running slower ?

I don't have any element for saying yes or not. But, looking for example at the case of Matthew Kisorio, he admitted to take steroids from the beginning of this season only, and all his PB are from the past : so, which type of advantage did Matthew have from his wrong behavior ? Don't forget he was positive at the antidoping test during National Championships, when everybody was informed, two days before the competition, that there was for the first time this procedure in Kenya. So, if he feared to be tested, the easy solution was to skip the championships, and this could be, obviously, the advice he could receive from his manager and his coach, if they were involved in this action.

It seems, therefore, very clear that, if somebody wants to get some illegal drug, he acts alone, with the support of some doctor not really expert that goes to cheat the athletes for having economic advantages.

It's a new of yesterday that the Chairman, Isaiah Kiplagat, decided to have antidoping control in the most part of domestic competitions, and in all the races where there is money. For doing this, he was able to have an agreement with Safaricom, that offered a budget that must specifically be used for the controls.

I know very well the cases of my athletes, when they are not able to compete at their top level, and I know the "rumors" about the reasons occurred with other athletes not able to repeat themselves. I can't exclude anything, but, for example, Duncan Kibet "Jamaica" tried to go back several time, but continues to have an injury not allowing him to run, and many times is limping also walking.

Anyway, I continue to think EPO doesn't work with the best Kenyan athletes (the example of Shaheen and Nicholas Kemboi, and Moses Mosop and Wilson Kipsang and Abel Kirui and Mary Keitany etc. that I have every day are clear, and personally I don't think they can run faster getting some doping), and 99% in Iten there is no this behavior. I can't speak for other places (Kapsabet, Ngong, Nyahururu, Kaptagat) because I don't frequent these sites, but I can bet the best athletes don't use anything illegal (because mine don't use anything, also legal...).

SPMBLNPF wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

His teacher/coach described him as the most "frightening" talent since Daniel Komen.

His teacher/coach must be as ignorant as you, for neither of you have apparently heard of Kenenisa Bekele.

Isn't he the guy who got 4th in the Olympic 10000? Almost beat Rupp.

Not at all. You could merely be wrong. We've all been surprised before.

I think your premise here is, "a guy ran 26:30 clean, so how likely could it be that people slower than him are doping?" There are lots of problems with this, and maybe someone else will discuss them.

I don't have any element for saying yes or not. But, looking for example at the case of Matthew Kisorio, he admitted to take steroids from the beginning of this season only, and all his PB are from the past : so, which type of advantage did Matthew have from his wrong behavior ?

Renato, scores of people are caught at major meets, probably far more than are caught in random out-of-comp tests. The easy answer is that these athletes gamble and lose. The idea is obviously to use the PEDs until the last possible moment, then let them clear from the system. Kisorio isn't the first one to mistime his taper.

I appreciate your efforts to distance yourself from this mayhem, but "these guys are doing it on their own" is a far cry from "doping among top runners is rare indeed."

It's a new of yesterday that the Chairman, Isaiah Kiplagat, decided to have antidoping control in the most part of domestic competitions, and in all the races where there is money. For doing this, he was able to have an agreement with Safaricom, that offered a budget that must specifically be used for the controls.

Wait a second. It's one thing to say "this guy took EPO and it didn't work," but quite another to say "these people all ran fast without EPO" (and you can never confirm that anyone you choose isn't in fact doping, even if you stay in the same room as him; you didn't follow Nicholas into the bathroom, did you?).

Makes sense. I live in Massachusetts and no one I train with is doping, so I can be pretty sure those in the South and on the West Coast are clean as well.

Mobot?

I'll crosspost here (If no one minds):

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4774861

Whether Kenyan athletes dope or not will be argued for a while.

If AK carries out its promise of doing a country wide sweep to test athletes or not, that doping is prevelant is already proven. IAAF has already busted quite a number of them.

Question is: What has changed to make doping 'nearly' necessary?

Before 2003, most Kenyan athltes were highly dependent on agents to compete in any international races. At about that time, there was a mushrooming of cyber cafes all over Kenya followed by the introduction of internet connectivity provided by mobile phone networks.

Suddenly, the athletes could locate races by themselves and realised that they could get to a race without the need for an agent.

With access to all the race calendars online, athletes quickly caught on. Visit any cyber in Eldoret, Kapsabet, Iten, Ngong, Nyahururu and you will find groups of athletes poring over race websites.

The only problem was how to actually get to the races. Athletes opted to start selling parcels of land, animals and some even went to the extent of borrowing ticket money from shylocks.

Travel agents also started giving out tickets on credit with security of the same.

And races got flooded by Kenyan athletes running on their own with stakes raised much higher. Now, athletes were not cushioned by agent money or race organiser provided tickets. They had to go back home with something.

Managers of elite athletes were now in a situation where, unlike before where they already knew which athletes they would be competing with in particular races due to agreements with elite athlete cordinators in races like the Boston, London, Berlin, New YorK Marathons, they had no idea who they would be competing against.

Now, a win at any major marathon was not guaranteed for the 'elite' athletes. A race that previously had 4 Kenyans now had 20 equally strong athletes.

There was only one other option. Doping.

Kenyan athletes do not dope to compete against European, American or other such athletes. They mostly dope to beat their fellow Kenyan athletes.

And hence the current fallout.

A Kenyan athlete that has sold all at home knowing full well that he is in superior form to 'elite' athletes that will be competing in the same race as he/her will come back home very angry when they lose to athletes whom they are very sure could not have beaten them unless they were doping.

What was previously talked about in hushed tones is not said with anger. Some athletes dope. Some more than others and these athletes without agents usually do not unless they can beg a few tabs off of an elite athlete supplied by an agent.

And so, the cycle will continue. As long as non-managed athletes can get to races (as well they should), Managers will be forced to counteract this emerging force of unknown athletes.

Food for thought: Is it not a wonder that NO 'elite' athlete has EVER won the Nairobi Marathon? At the beginning of the Nairobi Marathon, elite athletes blamed the poor prize money for not wanting to compete. Now the prize money matches many races in Europe and is actually better than quite a lot.

But they still refuse to compete. Why? Because they will get whitewashed by these unknowns. But now the unknowns are now in their international races too!

Bring out the dope!

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4774861#ixzz24U4EnzEi

Kenyarun you're an idiot and a conspiracy theorist who's clearly starved of attention. An effing joke, really. I can't believe I wasted time responding to this troll-post. Have it your way then, Kenya's star athletes are doped to the gills with this mysterious undetectable drug that only works for them. That's right, every single one of them ... Kip Keino, Ben Jipcho, Henry Rono, John Ngugi, Daniel Komen, Noah Ngeny, Paul Tergat, Samuel Wanjiru, Ezekiel Kemboi, Asbel Kiprop and David Rudisha ... all hoaxes. Like seriously, that country has no business dominating distance running ... how dare they?

Also find it interesting when a desperate, no-hope, third-tier Kenyan runner is caught cheating, the legitimacy of Kenyan running in its entirety, is questioned. The US, on the other hand, had their most high profile athlete, Marion Jones, outed as a cheat. But she's an individual.

The idiot here is rather obvious.

Bury your head.

Who said the drugs were undetectable you idiot?

Who talked about every single athlete you moron?

Sheesh, what a waste of keyboard strokes this fool is.

You are full of your self. You are here just trying to look smart about kenyan runners. I don't if they take drugs but i know for a fact that Jamaica trained his a$$ of when he run 2:04 and before that. I don't know where you are getting the idea that he is struggling form drug overdose is stupid and wrong. You are a hater and you need to get a life and you facts right.

You are full of your self. You are here just trying to look smart about kenyan runners. I don't if they take drugs but i know for a fact that Jamaica trained his a$$ of when he run 2:04 and before that. I don't know where you are getting the idea that he is struggling form drug overdose is stupid and wrong. You are a hater and you need to get a life and you facts right.

thats was not meant for you sorry

So where is the pic and name of this athlete taken on your cell outside this shop

Put up or shut the fxxx up

King Kong, where does Jamaica live exactly?

Lets test who knows the athlete more!

Renato Canova wrote:

I understand that, continuing to maintain my opinion, I can appear or completely stupid or somebody who wants to hide something

Bingo. The latter.

Then again, why would you want to hide your connection to doping? It's not like you make any money from the sport.

Oh, wait...

El Keniano wrote:

Kenyarun you're an idiot and a conspiracy theorist who's clearly starved of attention. An effing joke, really. I can't believe I wasted time responding to this troll-post. Have it your way then, Kenya's star athletes are doped to the gills with this mysterious undetectable drug that only works for them. That's right, every single one of them ... Kip Keino, Ben Jipcho, Henry Rono, John Ngugi, Daniel Komen, Noah Ngeny, Paul Tergat, Samuel Wanjiru, Ezekiel Kemboi, Asbel Kiprop and David Rudisha ... all hoaxes. Like seriously, that country has no business dominating distance running ... how dare they?

What you forgot, mister, is that Kenyan athletes from 60's, 70's and 80's didn't deviate much from the current average level. (There has always been some outlier, whose performance became a standard in the following 10-15 years.) It was only after 1995, when they suddenly started to run 40 sec. faster in the 10 km. Furthermore, I have already explained it several times: In late 80's they didn't start to "dominate", because they would be so much better. It was an optical illusion resulting from the fact that their competition disappeared from track. Now their "domination" can't be seriously threatened, because track is virtually dead in the industrialized world.

Kenyarun,

It is important that you qualify your statements (assertions/claims) rather than offer general sweeping statements regarding other people.

What do you mean that the new guys who win the Nairobi StanChart marathon ar doped?

Ar you serious?

Do you have one iota of evidence?

Wow!

Isn't it a bit harsh to compare Wagner to Rosa? I have never heard any allegations from anyone (athletes or managers) against Wagner. Rosa is essentially the pariah of the (honest players of the)sport.

finally someone speaking the truth. Thanks for a superb analysis of the situation in Kenya by a knowledgeable person with solid insight. More posters of this calibre on LRC

are wanted.