Nick Symmonds puts on a clinic - 800m

coach d wrote:

A Duck wrote:

I knew in the first 150 meters that Jock and Greer were done for.

Since Jock was in front at the bell and Solomon was right behind him, wouldn't you have known that Solomon was done, too?

Jock seemed tired in his semi finish. Solomon not so much.

Greer ran a dumb race, he finds .8 by not going out so hard, he is second and on to the Games.

Symmonds is the only one with a shot to make the final. It's a bad team.

alejandro wrote:

I thought KD also put on a clinic. When Nick really started to move up (maybe about 250 m. to go), Robinson held back quite a bit longer, he was clearly running just to make sure he was on the team. With about 150 m to go, I think he was still in 5th or 6th, but he knew exactly what he was doing - great run for all of the top 3!

Agree, KD learned his lesson after 2008, and has worked to not be a wire to wire guy any longer, and learn new tricks.

KD showed an old dog can learn new tricks.

As he showed in the WC's he doesn't have the gas for rounds at that level to make the final.

has been who never was wrote:

Martin ran a smart race. Jock did not. A shame neither of them made it.

Agree. I knew if Jock took the lead, he wouldn't make the team. And I knew if Greer went out with the top 3 he wouldn't make the team. I was hoping for Martin and Greer to make the team and start getting some young guns going for the future. Jock should be there in 4 years, but he has got to learn to run more than one style race.

It took KD ten years to get that message and adapt.

The only way to win 800's is to learn what is the exact best way to race for you -- and then master it.

Symmonds is under appreciated. He said a few years ago he was going to teach him self to run up closer to the front. And to teach himself to have more gears, more ability to accelerate more often in a race.

And he's done all that. And he is frickin tough as NAILS.

Symmonds is MONEY domestically.

Now he just has to face the GOAT in the 800 in Rudisha.

Rudisha be a monster. A once every 25 years god of an athlete.

Reality Bath wrote:

Back to the OP: Symmonds runs the best final curve of anyone on the planet. It's like he can run right through people without a hitch. If he didn't have to pass,and didn't celebrate a tad early, he would have run 1:43-mid today. Might be in 1:42-high shape by London.

Totally agree.

And he is confident and tough as any runner we have. If he has it in him to run it, he'll get it out of his body.

I think he's got a 1:42 in him.

Savor the moment. A 5 time USA Champ, putting on a clinic getting it done in context.

We all know no one is beating The Beast that is Rudisha.

And you can't really compare KD and Symmond's careers. KD ran dumb front running for too long and only in the past few years learned he needed new tricks.

As to Jock, he is a young KD, front running, one trick pony dumb bunny.

It has been discussed so many times before. With the exception of a Rudisha or a Cruz type, he who leads in the first 400 of the 800 rarely wins.

In all honesty, no one was certain whether or not Jock was going to die or not. I think Greer knew that usually he doesn't die and he might be recovered from the semis and run great. If that was the case the Greer needed to not lose too much ground to Jock or else he'd be way too far back to have a chance, something Mulder found out as he was way too far back to make the top 3.

Greer had a good season. He's definitely the favorite to win NCAA's next year and should be a 1:44.xx guy next season as well. But in this race the first spot was basically guaranteed to Symmonds and Robinson came on like a madman at the end. Solomon is finally running up to the potential he showed in college. Getting sixth to this field is nothing to be ashamed of. After all Greer was the youngest in the race.

I highly recommend you go back and watch the NCAA final again.

Greer moving down the back staight, going for the lead with 200 to go, then tentatively stalling and not having a kick left enough to get it done.

Now watch Symmonds, smoothly works his way down the back straight, into position and then runs a great turn and burns everyone down the home straight.

Greer went out too fast and that cost him 1. second on his second lap, and that was the difference between making the Games and staying home.

Another weird thing about Greer...when he finishes, he doesn't seem to look strained in the face, or tired in the face afterwards. He just looks like he ran out of gas, but wasn't gassed at the end. Weird.

Maybe he needs to work on his speed, or move up to the 1500.

He also has some of the Wheating, running in lane two problem as well.

I think its disrespectful of you to assume Elijah can't handle the early pace he ran. Elijah is an incredible athlete- and knocking the pace he chooses is assuming he is somehow lesser than athletes like Duane Solomon and Charles Jock who can lead and handle that early pace.

You owe someone of Elijah's caliber more faith then you're giving him. So what it didn't pan out? The fact that it didn't work doesn't mean thats what went wrong if anything did go wrong. Elijah made the final for the first time. He ran close to his PR. He had to run faster than 144.65 today to make the Olympic team. Does telling him to go out a few paces behind the leaders kill his ability to run faster than 144.65? I don't think so. Because he's that good of an athlete.

A Duck wrote:

Symmonds is MONEY domestically.

He's pretty good internationally, to, I think his places at the last two WC's - 6th and 5th - are underappreciated. That's better than Rupp placed - only Centro and Lagat placed higher, and he seems to get better every year.

Don't forget he was in lane eight. It probably didn't help not seeing the other guys. May have gone out harder than he wanted on accident. Also kd chops up his stride 200 m to go. Couldn't see that helping the kick.

A Duck wrote:

I knew in the first 150 meters that Jock and Greer were done for.

Sure you did, buddy. Sure you did.

Reality Bath wrote:

Back to the OP: Symmonds runs the best final curve of anyone on the planet. It's like he can run right through people without a hitch.

LOL! Sounds like you've never seen him run against real competition. I have. Wasn't pretty. Well, it was for the other guys.

A Duck wrote:

As to Jock, he is a young KD, front running, one trick pony dumb bunny.

"As to Jock"? Huh?

"Dumb bunny"? Are you on drugs?

A Duck wrote:

As to Jock, he is a young KD, front running, one trick pony dumb bunny.

Your racism is really something you should keep to yourself and try to outgrow.

Skate wrote:

I read a 27.09 to finish. If he splits 1:15.52 like Solomon at 600 and finishes that way = 1:42.61 AR. He'll need to be at least this close in the 800 final at 600m. Might get a bronze that way(or even a silver). I think he can do it.

Simmons's only plan to catch fading runners in the straight. He may just understand that he has no chance for gold or silver, but can catch those who went for it all, and at least look good at the finish.

He's a cherry picker in real competition. He'll never beat Rudisha as long as his ass points towards the ground. His best chance is for the real 800 runners to wear themselves out going for Olympic glory while he parks his chubby butt in the rear, looking for clean up on aisle 3.

What I found surprising was that Symmonds in his post race interview mentioned that with sharpening, he could get down to 1:43:low. I thought that was underestimating what he could do.

With some sharpening and not running in lane 2 for the 100-200 meters that he did, I think he could run sub 1:43.

Figure he picks up a couple tenths just by staying in lane 1 more. Figure he picks up .3-.5 in sharpening/peaking, and figure he feeds on the energy of the Games and maybe just has a slightly more perfect race, and he is at 1:42.9.

Anyway, he won't win Gold, but is in the hunt for silver/bronze.

Outside of Rudisha the likely Olympians that Symmonds will have to compete for a medal are:

Nijel Amos (1:43.11)

Mohammed Aman (1:43.58)

Kaki (1:43.74)

Kszczot (1:43.83)

Symmonds (1:43.92 at US Trials)

Kitum (1:43.94 at Kenyan Trials)

Chemut (1:43.96 at Kenyan Trials)

I'm sure there will be 1 or 2 of those guys who don't make the final... hopefully its not Nick (I don't think it will be).

The Olympic 800 will be a very cool race for Americans. Go SYMMONDS!

Greer seems to lack upper body strength to finish to his full potential. He is unable to draw enough power to hang the last 100, and this tendency is made more difficult when he goes out too fast. Great season though, after missing indoors opens strong and finishes well.

A Duck wrote:

The only way to win 800's is to learn what is the exact best way to race for you -- and then master it.

As someone who really wants Elijah to win and excel, it's good to know there are other passionate fans such as A Duck who want the same thing for him.

Greer has typically run more from the back, and depended on his closing kick to avoid or overcome traffic problems. This year, the nature of his injury changed how he could train and stress his foot through the season, and he didn't have his usual burst speed at the end. So, this season he had to adapt and learn a new way to race with the cards he was given. His ability to progress through rounds this year shows a real improvement in strength and endurance. I think A Duck should relook at Greer's season through a new lens and appreciate that he is doing exactly what A Duck wants for him: to find what the exact best way to race is for him. That best way may not be the same way every season.

I note that Elijah still didn't race totally from the front. His 400 time was only slightly faster than his comfort pace from last year for the first lap. I'm sure he wishes he didn't draw lane 8 and could have better seen where everyone was. He likely wouldn't have run the first 200 quite so fast. A slightly slower opening 200 likely gives him a close 4th in my mind. I agree with an earlier poster that last night Greer didn't quite have top 3 in him no matter what pace he ran the first 200 or 400.

So really, Elijah did very well for himself. Duck fans should be proud of him this year, and expectant of what he might do as a Duck in his senior year.

WhatYo wrote:

Outside of Rudisha the likely Olympians that Symmonds will have to compete for a medal are:

...

Symmonds (1:43.92 at US Trials)

Eh?