Lasse Viren 1976 Montreal 10,000-Gold 5,000-Gold Marathon-5th
Lasse Viren 1976 Montreal 10,000-Gold 5,000-Gold Marathon-5th
'I knew he had already won silver in the 5000 but had no idea he dropped out of the 10k with gallstones'
In Ron Hill's great book The Long Hard Road he mentioned Keino dropping out of the 10km with a few laps to go. As Hill was in the race I think he would know. Ron mentioned the pressure building and assumed the pressure got to Keino but I've read elsewhere he had gallstones
Quick Keino story:
I was in London watching the marathon about 10 years ago about 1/2 mile before the finish. Runners coming in where about the 4 1/2 hour mark. Among the hundreds of runners streaming passed I saw one who looked familiar, but older and a bit bigger than I had seen in videos, could it be him? He was now 30m past me so I shouted out 'Come on Kip Keino!' The runner turned round looked straight at me gave a wave and beamed a huge gap-toothed smile!
A Kenyan runner told me another story his mother told him about Keino and the Kibiswet bird wich I may recount later (if anyone is interested!)
coach d wrote:
"Train Hard Win Easy" pp. 95-96
He had yellow jaundice or hepatitis. With 3 laps to go in the 10000, he was lying flat on the track. He could not eat before the 5000. Part of the reason Ryun lost the 1500 is that Kip went out in Olympic Record pace and Ryun expected him to keel over any moment. By the time Ryun realized Kip was actually going to make it, Ryun was too far behind to make up the distance.
But why does a D1 distance coach not already know this?
Keino went out at Olympic record pace as a result of his experience in the 5000. He conceitedly assumed he could outsprint the field in the 5000 and was content to run at 14 minute pace. The shock of being outkicked by Gammoudi on the day, decided his tactics for the 1500.
Yes, I can confirm.
He had still had a set of stones that mattered. Jack Daniels trained Ryun for 3:37 pace as he believed no human could run faster than that at altitude, based on Jacks studies with Ryun. Ryun went out at the pace he trained for thinking Keino could not hold his suicidal pace.
quote]Kip Keino's gallstone wrote:
Yes, I can confirm.[/quote]
'Jack Daniels trained Ryun for 3:37 pace as he believed no human could run faster than that at altitude, based on Jacks studies with Ryun. Ryun went out at the pace he trained for thinking Keino could not hold his suicidal pace.'
Watching that race again either couldn't go with the pace (he looked to be rocking and rolling before the bell to me?) or had poor tactics. He was miles behind the 2nd and 3rd runners and gave himself no chance
These days he would have had won a couple of WC's as he had bad luck in the games
Then again its hard enough to beat a Kenyan/Ethiopian at sea level, you've got little chance at altitude
Mohammed Gammoudi ran the most underated race at the games, as a non altidude born athlete winning the 5'000m. Although did spend 2 yrs training at altitude. He was a brilliant tactician as well
Gee whiz Rojo.
I just looked at the pictures of Keino’s visit to Cornell. Why didn’t you ask him about the ’68 Games? No big deal, I am not trying to flame you. Also, the tongue in cheek remark about Keino NOT running professionally. He DID. in the early 1970s (1973 after the Munich Games) there was the International Track Association (ITA) and Kip was a part of it along with Jim Ryun, George Young, Dave Wottle just to name some runners involved. It was founded by a guy named Mike O’Hara if I remember correctly. Time Magazine ran a story on them and Marty Liqouri was one of their announcers.
I have photos from one of their events and attended the first one. Get in touch with me if you want to see a photo.
rojo wrote:
I knew he had already won silver in the 5000 but had no idea he dropped out of the 10k with gallstones.
That's what this article says and I'm assuming it's accurate.
Can anyone confirm?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/mar/30/olympics-2012-athletics
When I see something like this, I think that no one can fault Dwight Phillips for caring more about fantasy football than with what's going on in the sport that he's made his career, because track clearly isn't an interesting/compelling sport if the founder of the most popular track message board in the world is just now finding out about the well documented exploits of one of the all-time greats like Kip Keino.
Is there any way the founders of baseball-fever.com don't know that after DiMaggio's his streak was snapped at 56 games that the next game he began another hit streak of 17 games?
Emil Zatopek! 1952 Helsinki10,000-Gold5,000-GoldMarathon-Gold
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
were not aware that the guy TRIPLED at the '68 games (an unprecedented triple attempt in the modern games? anyone know?).
jimjamesrunner wrote:
Lasse Viren 1976 Montreal 10,000-Gold 5,000-Gold Marathon-5th
'if the founder of the most popular track message board in the world is just now finding out about the well documented exploits of one of the all-time greats like Kip Keino'
He could check and probably did. Did you never occur to you that he might have been trying to promote some actual discussion about track history
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'if the founder of the most popular track message board in the world is just now finding out about the well documented exploits of one of the all-time greats like Kip Keino'
He could check and probably did. Did you never occur to you that he might have been trying to promote some actual discussion about track history
No. I am certain he had never heard that he had entered, and dropped out late, in the 10000m.
lmatthews wrote:
Emil Zatopek! 1952 Helsinki
10,000-Gold
5,000-Gold
Marathon-Gold
Sir Lance-alot wrote:were not aware that the guy TRIPLED at the '68 games (an unprecedented triple attempt in the modern games? anyone know?).
jimjamesrunner wrote:
Lasse Viren 1976 Montreal 10,000-Gold 5,000-Gold Marathon-5th
OK all you Einsteins bringing up Viren and Zatopek in response to the question about Keino's triple attempt, I'm sure that you are really enlightening all one (1) visitor to this thread who was not well aware of the exploits of LV and EZ.
BUT THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION.
The question was in regards to a 1500, 5000, 10000 triple attempt.
I think Ryun did OK for silver, considering that '68 was nowhere near the peak of the previous two years for him. I blame general psychic and physical burn out. Not to take anything away from Keino's amazing race, a mark that is maybe superior to Ryun's world record at sea level.
But let's not forget, Ryun blew Keino off the track in his world record in '67, beating him by a bigger margin than Keino won the Olympics by. Then Ryun smoked Keino again later that summer in London. Yes, the Olympics counts for more, no doubt. Over all, perhaps Keino ranks higher in mile/1500 history, even if he had no chance of beating Ryun at his peak.
Then you are poor students of the sport. Plain and simple.
Should be noted wrote:
lmatthews wrote:Emil Zatopek! 1952 Helsinki
10,000-Gold
5,000-Gold
Marathon-Gold
OK all you Einsteins bringing up Viren and Zatopek in response to the question about Keino's triple attempt, I'm sure that you are really enlightening all one (1) visitor to this thread who was not well aware of the exploits of LV and EZ.
BUT THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION.
The question was in regards to a 1500, 5000, 10000 triple attempt.
I don't believe anyone else has entered all three, with a serious hope in medalling in all three at the same Olympics.
Nurmi is the only man to have one all three, though in different Olympiads. In 1924, he won gold in the 1500m and 5000m, with less than two hours between the final of both races, and also won gold in the individual 10000m Cross Country and team races.
Ryun always rocked his head!
Its interesting that this debate still goes on over 40 years later. Both were GREAT runners. Keino made a tremendous effort that olympics that is now justly folklore (was he really thinking of not running the final after running prelims and semi? Did he miss the bus or was it stuck in traffic?)
But Keino couldn't touch him normally in the mile/1500.
Altitude training wasn't very well understood then and Ryun wasn't prepared as well as he thought he was. I've heard him talk about this race and he said he put it all out there and felt like he was going to die. The hostility he felt from the USA for only getting the silver was significant.
And yes, these days are different. He would have had WC to fight for and they would have advanced him in Munich on the foul (shocking they didn't). I love how much simpler things were then, people taking buses to their olympic finals etc.
Didn't Ryun spend some time at altitude with Jack Daniels prior to that Olympics? Besides, I would think the issues that Keino had to deal with (sick, raced the 5k, 10k, and 1500 heats, had to drop out in the 10k) were much more serious than Ryun dealing with altitude.
72 Munich would have been Ryun’s best hope of a gold medal.
He ran a 2.52 mile, 13.38 5000 and ran away with the US Trials in that year.
He was tripped in the heats of the 1500 by some novice, Indian I think, who probably never beat 4 minutes in his life.
Then the American officials left him out to dry, they virtually washed their hands of him and didn’t kick up the sort of stink that even minor nations kick up in these circumstance, so he was never re-instated.
Totally inexplicable, America of all nations had the clout to get him back in the event - it would have been a win-win situation all round as well a treat for the spectators and TV audience - Ryun v Vasala v Keino in the final.
In Munich, Ryun was tripped by a runner from Ghana. In '72 he won the trial in 3:41 & change with a 51 point final 400. Maybe Pekka V. would have won anyway? Was he a blood doper? Maybe Ryun would have won. We'll never know.
I was nuts for Jim Ryun, at 15 in '72 he was my idol, along with Marty Liquori. It was my entry into the sport.
Not as happy with Jim the congressman!