Caster Semenya-not trying in races

My wife likes running but doesn't watch a lot of track, or know who the participants are. But she was in the room while I was watching the Pre women's 800m. As they were on the home stretch my wife asked me, "Why is that runner in second trying not to win?"

It's obvious to anybody watching these races, not just those of us who are serious about track, that something's seriously wrong here.

Just idle speculation but I think in her day our dear Miss Marita out testosteroned the Caster of today.

Good job on the first several posts. I laughed.

It is likely Semenya has partial androgen insensitivity. I think I remember reading the whole justification for her gender test originally was that her testosterone levels were 5 times higher than what would be expected in a normal healthy woman. Testicles were found. Everything about her points to partial AIS. This is a pretty well understood condition I think. One of my professors, an endocrinologist, actually talked about Semenya during a lecture on sex and gender development and genetic and hormonal abnormalities. He laughed that anyone thought it appropriate for Semenya to compete against women, and this is a guy who gives lectures ot the public on sex, gender, sexual orientation, etc and how it's all biological and is a continuum and that discrimination is silly.

As for her effort during races, I've noticed this as well. It's obvious she is out there just cruising because it's the only way she'll be allowed to race. The whole thing is an embarrassment to track and field in my opinion.

800m from Oslo. Finishing third after leading until 700m. Then trying hard not to win. Successfully.

The Stache wrote:

Wouldn't it be interesting if Caster basically runs an entire career of getting 2nd place. No matter the race, the pace, the competition, the stakes, just get 2nd place in everything so no one gets mad.

Dunno--Maria Mutola won lots of stuff, and got away with it:

Yea, and Carlelita Jeter is getting away with it as well..

Semenya went from a 2:04.23 800 in 2008 to 1:55.45 800 in 2009. She improved 8.78 seconds.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographies/country=rsa/athcode=242560/index.html

Pamela Jelimo went from 2:03.50 in 2007 to 1:54.87 in 2009. She improved 7.63 seconds.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographies/country=ken/athcode=241321/index.html

Jelimo ran .58 faster at the Olympics and Semenya improved 1.15 seconds more. I would say it is far from impossible. And since when can elite men improve more than elite women?

Interesting theory and I'm not saying that what you suggest is impossible, but can someone add up how much money that she and her agent are giving up from potential Diamond League wins, so she can win a medal at Daegu?

I'd argue that calling Caster "him" is offensive. She is a woman, period. If you want to make the case that because of her abnormal characteristics she should not be allowed to compete against OTHER women, then by all means argue that; I generally agree with that sentiment. But please show her the respect she deserves and refer to her appropriately. Most of you guys would be offended if I called you a woman, right? This is the same thing as far as that goes...

I think somebody previously mentioned that she seemingly slowed up. Actually that wouldn't be a bad tactic. Getting to know the competition.

I would argue the same. What I meant is that "he" vs "she" might be up for debate, but "it" does not enter the argument.

The reason for that suggestion would be the theory that a male at the age of 18 is still on the steeper part of the performance improvement curve, they have a bigger margin still to improve by - a 17 year old to 18 year old improvement among boys would be larger than the improvement among 17 to 18 year old girls, for example. And that's reasonable, many boys in high school make a jump like that, it's far rarer among the girls, and it's because of the physical effects of testosterone, and because the guys at 2:04 level are still 20% off the "ceiling" whereas girls are only 8 to 10% off the ceiling.

Also, it would be wise not to use Jelimo as your comparison, because you may well be aware that Jelimo was investigated by the IAAF for the same thing... this was revealed in a TV documentary on Semenya here in South Africa, where the producers of the show carelessly failed to block out the name of an athlete in an email sent from the IAAF to one of their doctors saying "we have another Jelimo on our hands". So Jelimo was looked at in the same way, and it's conceivable that her dramatic drop in performance levels since 2008 has something to do with it - she barely runs 2:02 these days.

That said, difficult to judge Semenya now. If you look at the World Junior champs in 2008, when she had no reason to run slowly or not try hard, she looks equally at ease in the back straight when she's being dropped and pushed back to 7th. Some people just look that way. It is pretty bizarre watching her run though, like watching a training run. But may be "normal" for her, who knows. Be interesting to see if she ever gets quicker than 1:57. Remember, she's 4 seconds off Berlin at the moment, that's 4% and a huge gap, so if she never reaches 1:56, 1:57, then it would suggest that maybe there was some treatment (which I believe, but won't go into now).

Ross

If Semenya can run, just let all men and women run together then and be done with it. May the best, er, uh, runner win.

Semenya clearly has an advantage over the women.

Side note: When Semenya was interviewed after Pre, both of my dogs stood up and barked at the television. Weird.

optional name wrote:

Side note: When Semenya was interviewed after Pre, both of my dogs stood up and barked at the television. Weird.

This is why I love letsrun.

Yepseenthattoo wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNA47llaPsw

800m from Oslo. Finishing third after leading until 700m. Then trying hard not to win. Successfully.

I love it that the one woman riding right along Semenya's shoulder is Jenny Meadows. She is the one who was so outspoken in Berlin. She was killing herself to beat Semenya, but could not. It seemed like Semenya kicked it in a little at the top of the homestretch just to get past her, but then let the other two come on by to win, just to get back at Meadows. That is kind of funny.

I think you have it backwards - Meadows has been nothing but supportive of Semenya. She calls out other runners as being unfair to Semenya.

Adam Apple wrote:

Yepseenthattoo wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNA47llaPsw

800m from Oslo. Finishing third after leading until 700m. Then trying hard not to win. Successfully.

I love it that the one woman riding right along Semenya's shoulder is Jenny Meadows. She is the one who was so outspoken in Berlin. She was killing herself to beat Semenya, but could not. It seemed like Semenya kicked it in a little at the top of the homestretch just to get past her, but then let the other two come on by to win, just to get back at Meadows. That is kind of funny.

Crimea River wrote:

It was a bit much when she got her phone out at the bell and spent the entire second lap texting her agent about which place to finish in.

Another good Letsrun quote.

I think Caster could have a good career as a rabbit that leads for 750m at any pace.

hrunner wrote:

I think you have it backwards - Meadows has been nothing but supportive of Semenya. She calls out other runners as being unfair to Semenya.

You're right to a point, but she really called out the other runners as being insensitive as she was upset that someone could be treated like that.

I would imagine that Jenny fully agrees with the 'Semenya shouldn't be running with the women' sentiment, but her comments clearly showed her sensitivity to the rough treatment that Semenya was receiving on a personal level and a large amount of diplomacy.

That said, I would imagine that the last person that Semenya would be desperate to beat was Jenny, unless she is jealous of little blondes or something.

I'm sorry, but great runners are not like other runners. This quality is what makes her special as a runner and she deserves to break the WR if she can. This is like telling Bolt that he can not race because he's too tall, or telling a great 5000 meter runner that he's in eligible because he's got something that allows his body to have a higher VO2 max than other runners.

I want to see her go all out and believe that she deserves to race. That's what makes Track and Field great.