J.R. wrote:
rsb wrote:As mentioned earlier, the incredibly fast stride frequency is a clue. I don't think you run like that by doing drugs. I'm not saying they were or they weren't, because I don't know. I'm just saying that, technically, the way they ran was fascinating. The fastest turnover rate for distance runners that I can remember, ever.
They are probably the most well trained group of distance runners ever, from 1500m through the marathon.
Not really.
Plenty of guys can run that.
No group of runners before or since could run a 4 flat in such a fashion. Once they decide to kick with that uniquely fast turnover its over after a few seconds. I mean, how many women today can run a 1:57 800? 5? 6? It's a shame you only see a second of the 3000m world record as it trumps both 29:30 and 3:50. If I remember right its the highest scoring WR sccording to the IAAF tables - the only 3k to feature a sub 4 1500m split to boot (4:07/3:59).
xdrtkj wrote:
Here is a link to the 1993 World Champs 1500 that one of those videos had.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY3qHznwxB0&feature=relatedThe IAAF booklet from the most recent worlds had past results and said that Liu Dong's last lap was 57.48. First two laps were 68.20 and 2:17.58. Then Liu ran 60.15 and 42.77 to win easily. The Chinese had wheels back then.
I work in China and spend too much time here. What I have learned in my 8 years working with Chinese is one thing. They never tell the truth. Never. Not even once. In business here, you are considered weak if you do not TRY to cheat. If you get caught, it's part of business. Then you try to cheat another way. It is their way of life.
fromChina wrote:
I work in China and spend too much time here. What I have learned in my 8 years working with Chinese is one thing. They never tell the truth. Never. Not even once. In business here, you are considered weak if you do not TRY to cheat. If you get caught, it's part of business. Then you try to cheat another way. It is their way of life.
I definitely knew the Chinese were going to try to be crafty in some way. It's not about legitimately achieving new human boundaries for them, it's about setting up a positive image and a reputation for being the most amazing, the most talented, most beautiful people in the world. I don't believe these records for a second. Isn't it a little ironic that there is only seconds worth of video footage (probably faked) AND they had to destroy the stadium shortly afterward? Like the poster above said, the Chinese are going to do whatever it takes to make it seem like they are the best at something. It's really quite scary to think about the way in which they view themselves and the way they treat their national image, as if no one else on Earth should have a clue as to the legitimacy of anything that happens over there, or even care. We're just supposed to believe and admire. It's not just crazy, it's batshit insane.
turtle blood, eh? wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCO3f0paE8&NR=1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AEI never thought footage of this almost mythical meet actually existed. for years conspuracy theories abounded - from short tracks to fabricated results to faulty timings etc...but someone's come up with video evidence of the '93 National Games. They're quite short and not the best quality, but interesting anyways. for one, the track definitey looks like the standard 400m, and Wang Junxia actually looks pretty good for her age and...well, you know.
Maybe sometime soon we'll actually see full coverage these performnaces....because they ARE out there it seems.
Curiously, these videos almost never show the full straight or the full turn. In the second video, pause it at 43 seconds and see if that looks like a 400m track to you. It sure looks short to me.
Interesting to see how in that 1500 clip O'Sullivan, having been shut out of the medals by the Chinese in the 3000, celebrates as if she just won gold, by beating Boulmerka. In her mind she has... there is a wryness to her smile for sure.
fisky wrote:
turtle blood, eh? wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCO3f0paE8&NR=1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AEI never thought footage of this almost mythical meet actually existed. for years conspuracy theories abounded - from short tracks to fabricated results to faulty timings etc...but someone's come up with video evidence of the '93 National Games. They're quite short and not the best quality, but interesting anyways. for one, the track definitey looks like the standard 400m, and Wang Junxia actually looks pretty good for her age and...well, you know.
Maybe sometime soon we'll actually see full coverage these performnaces....because they ARE out there it seems.
Curiously, these videos almost never show the full straight or the full turn. In the second video, pause it at 43 seconds and see if that looks like a 400m track to you. It sure looks short to me.
As a follow up, look 1:12 into the first video after she finishes the 10k and is jogging the turn. That looks more like the turns of an indoor 200m track. Even if the video is foreshortened by a zoom lens, it still looks short.
O'Sullivan was happy because she didn't get 4th place again after being the favorite, like she did in the 3k.
fisky wrote:
turtle blood, eh? wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCO3f0paE8&NR=1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AEI never thought footage of this almost mythical meet actually existed. for years conspuracy theories abounded - from short tracks to fabricated results to faulty timings etc...but someone's come up with video evidence of the '93 National Games. They're quite short and not the best quality, but interesting anyways. for one, the track definitey looks like the standard 400m, and Wang Junxia actually looks pretty good for her age and...well, you know.
Maybe sometime soon we'll actually see full coverage these performnaces....because they ARE out there it seems.
Curiously, these videos almost never show the full straight or the full turn. In the second video, pause it at 43 seconds and see if that looks like a 400m track to you. It sure looks short to me.
It's not short. The men ran about what you would expect.
If it were short, you wouldn't be able to tell. Having run on a 390m track all through high school, I can tell you it looks exactly like a 400m track.
It may be closer to 380m
Common Knowledge wrote:
If it were short, you wouldn't be able to tell. Having run on a 390m track all through high school, I can tell you it looks exactly like a 400m track.
If it were short, the men would have also recorded astounding times. But the Chinese men's 5000m record is only 13:25.14, set at the 1997 National Games in Shanghai, on the same track where Jiang Bo ran 3:50.98, and Lang Yinglai set the WJR of 3:51.34, and the very same one that will be used for the Shanghai Diamond League meet.
I tried to look for the men's results from those games. Couldn't find it. Obviously in 1993, Chinese men were not world class (the women were, so that turned into WRs). It would be nice to see if they all scored PBs however.
The track definitely wasn't short. The National Games were held at the Beijing Workers' Stadium which 3 years previous hosted the 1990 Asian Games. The same stadium - albeit renovated - was used for soccer games in the 2008 Olympics. The short track conspiracies were always pretty farfectched tbh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_Stadium
(yeah, its wiki)
jfb5 wrote:
I tried to look for the men's results from those games. Couldn't find it. Obviously in 1993, Chinese men were not world class (the women were, so that turned into WRs). It would be nice to see if they all scored PBs however.
The Chinese Men's records are above 13:20 and above 28:00.
The videos look like highlight programs, probably aired on breakfast TV or something in the lead up to 2008.
The important thing is that it proves that live video footage did exist in that week in 1993. Thousands witnessed the performances in the stadium and there's probably a good few thousand Chinese with old VHS tapes of the races in their entirity.
Now for cverage of the 1997 1500m race (the one I really want to see).
When africans run fast it is talent - when asians run fast it is drugs? These women were just as clean as the ethiopians and kenyans who are represented by Rosa/Hermens.
Sad but true.
listen wrote:
When africans run fast it is talent - when asians run fast it is drugs? These women were just as clean as the ethiopians and kenyans who are represented by Rosa/Hermens.
Sad but true.
But not the Americans represented by them, like Meb or Suzy Favor?
As a follow up, look 1:12 into the first video after she finishes the 10k and is jogging the turn. That looks more like the turns of an indoor 200m track. Even if the video is foreshortened by a zoom lens, it still looks short.[/quote]
What are you talking about? - it looks perfectly normal. On camera a 350 track would look 400, probably even a 300.
Its drugs pure and simple.
listen wrote:
When africans run fast it is talent - when asians run fast it is drugs? These women were just as clean as the ethiopians and kenyans who are represented by Rosa/Hermens.
Sad but true.
Are you kidding? Africans get accused of using drugs all the time, too.
If you can't tell the difference between African dominance... and this, then you are pretty dumb. Tell me what kind of training secrets could they have possibly known that we didn't? Why were their men so much slower?