Califoniclarification wrote:
On another note - if a lack of testing makes a runner guilty then Americans are as guilty as anyone. Most of the major road races in the USA don't test and invite the most suspect of athletes i.e. Mo Trafeh, Teyba Naser, Alene Reta, etc.
I'm just as harsh on Americans, but this thread isn't about Americans.
trollism wrote:
Califoniclarification wrote:On another note - if a lack of testing makes a runner guilty then Americans are as guilty as anyone. Most of the major road races in the USA don't test and invite the most suspect of athletes i.e. Mo Trafeh, Teyba Naser, Alene Reta, etc.
I'm just as harsh on Americans, but this thread isn't about Americans.
Trollism,
Do you think any British mid-long distance elite/sub-elite runners are juiced?
How come you don't post on Eightlane?
Some Coked Up Brit
Well, it is (I'm actually NOT being sarcastic) something of a relief that you are an equal opportunities hater. Perhaps you should, however, consider getting some "personal experience" (no, I do't mean doing drugs) with elite athletes before you make your libelous judgments. I speak from experience of seeing the pressure on a young Kenyan man or woman's shoulders to win a race and feed their family KNOWING that some of their competitors WILL inevitably be on drugs. I UNDERSTAND that a lesser person could choose to take PEDs (and it would be hard, in SOME cases, for me to judge them on a moral level), and I understand the courage it takes for many of them to trust God (their faith... no need to get into a religious debate) to be their provider knowing others are cheating. Of course, you are right (it's not exactly ground-breaking stuff) that some athletes cheat, but you should not be so quick to dismiss everyone. Some people are cut from a moral fabric that you may not ever be able to understand.
There will be a percentage some coked up brit. There aren't many that stand out as being obvious mind you.
Califoniclarification wrote:
Well, it is (I'm actually NOT being sarcastic) something of a relief that you are an equal opportunities hater. Perhaps you should, however, consider getting some "personal experience" (no, I do't mean doing drugs) with elite athletes before you make your libelous judgments. I speak from experience of seeing the pressure on a young Kenyan man or woman's shoulders to win a race and feed their family KNOWING that some of their competitors WILL inevitably be on drugs. I UNDERSTAND that a lesser person could choose to take PEDs (and it would be hard, in SOME cases, for me to judge them on a moral level), and I understand the courage it takes for many of them to trust God (their faith... no need to get into a religious debate) to be their provider knowing others are cheating. Of course, you are right (it's not exactly ground-breaking stuff) that some athletes cheat, but you should not be so quick to dismiss everyone. Some people are cut from a moral fabric that you may not ever be able to understand.
Athletes with dodgy agents stand out a mile. I don't care where they're from.
Why do these athletes always seem to need some seedy Italian knocking around in order for them to win? You think a belief in God is going to stop people cheating?
One guy got busted over here by his agent because he found EPO in the fridge. He'd got it direct from a Kenyan GP, no questions asked, simple as.
Tip of a very worrying iceberg.
I'm not a big fan of Gianni or Dr. Rosa either. But, why does an athlete "seem to need" them? Are you serious? These guys and girls would jump at the chance to be represented by any manager. Sometimes all they "need" is stability and structure and the knowledge that they are training for one specific race. And, no, I don't "think" a belief in God is going to stop people cheating. I KNOW it is going to stop SOME people from cheating, and I KNOW it will NOT stop others. The point is that you are tarnishing the reputation of many decent and honorable people with your broad assumptions.
And, who was the guy who got busted? It would be a little bit ironic if you want to protect someone who is "known" to be guilty while you libel those you don't, wouldn't it?
Of course, if you don't REALLY know the full story, then it is better you don't say the name.
ageverified wrote:
First things first. I will not give any details, but I will explain how I know 100% for fact that my kenyan teammates brother who qualified for the world cross country championships is at least 24 years of age. We were on a run, and he told me that his brother qualified for the world xc championships. So I go to the results and don't see him, then he tells me he qualified in the junior race, so I ask him if his brother is older or younger than him..expecting to hear younger since my kenyan teammate is 23 years of age...he says older of course...and then he realized the mistake he made and took off and didnt talk the rest of the run...can you imagine ritz running the world junior xc?
how can they get away with this?..i know that some get caught, and its hard to prove since they dont have very good medical records over there, but it just really made me mad...and then he goes on to win a medal!
Wow!
You people never seem to give up, do you?
You are always raising tired arguments that are as old as the hills.
I do not know what prompted your comment regarding age cheating but does it have to do with the just concluded Cross Country races in Bydgoszcz?
These children just work hard. There are no two ways about it.
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/98099078/Getty-Images-Sporthttp://www.gettyimages.com/detail/98099190/Getty-Images-SportHard work. You must be kidding! There is no way that hard work alone could lead to Kenyans winning all of the major medals, male and female, junior and senior. There is clearly a grand plot involved in order to deny the European and American runners the chance to demonstrate their superior ability. Without this elaborate scheme (which also involved athletes from the African nations of Uganda, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Burundi, Morocco, et al.), European, American and Asian runners would clearly have dominated these championships. Furthermore, the scheme extends to the Olympic distance events, World Championships and major road races. The only reason Kenyans and Africans routinely dominate these events is because of the nefarious plot designed to keep the children of Prefontaine from assuming their rightful place at the pinnacle of the sport of distance running.
If you care deeply about this travesty, as you should, please write to our Kenyan-American president, and ask him to do what he can to set things straight. Thanks in advance for your support with this worthwhile endeavor.
Hard work. You must be kidding! There is no way that hard work alone could lead to Kenyans winning all of the major medals, male and female, junior and senior. There is clearly a grand plot involved in order to deny the European and American runners the chance to demonstrate their superior ability. Without this elaborate scheme (which also involved athletes from the African nations of Uganda, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Burundi, Morocco, et al.), European, American and Asian runners would clearly have dominated these championships. Furthermore, the scheme extends to the Olympic distance events, World Championships and major road races. The only reason Kenyans and Africans routinely dominate these events is because of the nefarious plot designed to keep the children of Prefontaine from assuming their rightful place at the pinnacle of the sport of distance running.
If you care deeply about this travesty, as you should, please write to our Kenyan-American president, and ask him to do what he can to set things straight. Thanks in advance for your support with this worthwhile endeavor.
you rather have them join in on the ass-kicking of americans that is already occuring in the senior race?
ageverified wrote:
First things first. I will not give any details, but I will explain how I know 100% for fact that my kenyan teammates brother who qualified for the world cross country championships is at least 24 years of age. We were on a run, and he told me that his brother qualified for the world xc championships. So I go to the results and don't see him, then he tells me he qualified in the junior race, so I ask him if his brother is older or younger than him..expecting to hear younger since my kenyan teammate is 23 years of age...he says older of course...and then he realized the mistake he made and took off and didnt talk the rest of the run...can you imagine ritz running the world junior xc?
how can they get away with this?..i know that some get caught, and its hard to prove since they dont have very good medical records over there, but it just really made me mad...and then he goes on to win a medal!
when you get beat you start asking stupid questions. kenya's young and old are good. we can stage races for age 1-100 years and kenya will win. please, western people, train, train , train, stop whinning. oooh, kenya this , kenya that, kenya , kenya, kenya. oooh, kenyans are dopping, ooh, kenyans have special genes, ooh, cross country courses are flat, oooh, kenyans have more hemoglobin, nonsense. stop looking at our food , going into our kitchens too and acting friendly and coming up with stupid theories.
Are Kenyan(and other east africans)primarily the best runners on earth? Yes
Do they cheat? no more or less then anybody else
Do they train harder? NO MORE OR LESS THEN ANYBODY ELSE!
I feel that Kenyans are naturally great runners (along with Ugandans, Ethiopians, and most east Africans) because they live at an optimal training altitude with optimal temperatures for year round training. they also have high motivation (i.e. winning major race is a method of survival for their family).
they also spend allot more time on there feet (mostly barefooted) running and walking to school and town and about the village. this is like training in disguise from a young age. also children start working at a younger age which has been known to physically mature a person quicker.
Why are Asians' eyes squinted?
because they have adapted over generations and generations to adapt to high wind speeds in the Eastern Asian region.
Why are Kenyans supreme endurance athletes? Because they have adapted that way over generations and generations. There given lifestyle combine with the region has made this group of people great distance runners.
just my take! what do you think?
Mike Rowave wrote:
shut up!! running is not even a sport, it requires zero athleticism
Not only is running a sport, IT IS THE ONLY SPORT, SWEETHEART!
LoL, @ Observing owl, i like the asian eyes theory. LoL. I agree with you 100%
ageverified wrote:
how can they get away with this?..i know that some get caught, and its hard to prove since they dont have very good medical records over there, but it just really made me mad...and then he goes on to win a medal!
Small potatoes, Kenyan senior posing as juniors in athletics, when this Kenyan is posing as the legal President of the USA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9pEPGc3oqM&NR=1douglas burke wrote:
ritz would have his hands full with the kenyan/ethiopian juniors.
ritz may or not be able to win world junior xc even if he was allowed to run, it is not a given he would win though.
i know what you mean though, i wonder why people who are that good would lie just to win a race against younger not as developed runners, especially as there is no money for the world juniors races. 2 of the kenyans who originally made the junior team this year were caught lieing about their age and were not allowed to run.
the truth is kenya/ethiopia do not need to cheat as they would win anyway.
True...Ritz would not win the world JUNIOR xc...he could be top 5, maybe.
...as another post stated:
Simply train smarter and quit yer belly-achin'!!
You don't see any other country bitchin' about over/under-age athlete's etc., If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, get the hell out.
They probably don't know their true age as you said and Ethiopians operate on a different callender
Do you really think it would make any difference? Look at the seniors. They could field 5 teams ahead of us
You are clutching at straws
Most of the Kenyan youth athletes didn't come from nowhere, their performance can be tracked from their school events. If they say a student is in form 3 (High school) you can estimate their age from the average form 3 students.
Normally, high schoolers are under 20s!
Most of the Junior high school runners are either high schoolers or they are primary school drop outs!
I can't rule out age problems, but age problems or not, Kenyans youth can only be challenged by Ethiopian counterparts when it comes to cross country and middle distance running.
Just like in the the US, drug doping or not, the US still have the upper hand in sprints. Only this time Usain is clouding that image, but no one doubt the prowess of US in the sprints.
By the same token, the prowess of Kenyan youth is something that can't be overlooked even though their might be one or two irregular cases!
I'd say is the other way around. Most Kenyans runner the senior race are actually juniors. At least some of them, to a
large degree.
ritz took a medal while a junior, so I think he is faster now...