And he never improved on that outdoors- but ran 3:49 indoors.
ventolin^2 wrote:
you do know eamon set the european mile record aged 22y in '75 with 3'53.3, which at the time put him 6th on alltime list behind bayi, ryun, keino, jipcho & liquori
And he never improved on that outdoors- but ran 3:49 indoors.
ventolin^2 wrote:
you do know eamon set the european mile record aged 22y in '75 with 3'53.3, which at the time put him 6th on alltime list behind bayi, ryun, keino, jipcho & liquori
How many people on here know Mekonnen personally? I can tell you for a fact that Willis is friends with a lot of people on this site. The reason people follow nick and discuss his races is because he has a personal connection with a lot of people that post here. And as for the person that said Nick is not a great runner, how many Commonwealth and Olympic medalists would you call not great runners?...whats the standard there buddy? That was Nicks second serious race back from over a year off...
...and congrats to Mekonnen, amazing effort.
Lagat must be a jerk then?
zone defense wrote:
Deresse seems to be the Ethio Eamonn Coghlan- great indoors, but doesn't improve outdoors.
We're talking about the guy who just finished second in the outdoor World Championships, right?
(And Eamonn Coghlan was an outdoor World Champion in the 5,000).
Mekonnen set decent PR's in the 1500, mile, 3000 and 5000 last year.
He may be the new man to beat in the 1500 and become the favorite for 2011 and 2012.
That was an awesome run by Mekonnen.
let me re-phrase: I think Mekonnen is underrated overall, and I even started a thread last summer when he ran 3:50. I'm just saying, don't be too surprised if he runs 3:33 in February and still doesn't break 3:30 this summer. He seems very consistent throughout the year.Isn't it interesting how 3:30 is a big barrier now, compared to ten years ago? Hmmm....
toro wrote:
zone defense wrote:Deresse seems to be the Ethio Eamonn Coghlan- great indoors, but doesn't improve outdoors.
We're talking about the guy who just finished second in the outdoor World Championships, right?
(And Eamonn Coghlan was an outdoor World Champion in the 5,000).
Mekonnen set decent PR's in the 1500, mile, 3000 and 5000 last year.
He may be the new man to beat in the 1500 and become the favorite for 2011 and 2012.
zone defense wrote:
let me re-phrase: I think Mekonnen is underrated overall, and I even started a thread last summer when he ran 3:50. I'm just saying, don't be too surprised if he runs 3:33 in February and still doesn't break 3:30 this summer. He seems very consistent throughout the year.
Isn't it interesting how 3:30 is a big barrier now, compared to ten years ago? Hmmm....
I agree. What on Earth could have been around in the late 90's and early 00's that would make many run well under 3:30 and also able to run almost equally well at 5k? Hmmm....
All of a sudden (in the mid '90's)1500 guys who were usually pretty reasonable at 800, started running exceptionally well at 5000m and couldn't run for toffee (or indeed chose not to run, surprisingly! ;0)) at 800m.
I'm assured by several on here (e.g Ventolin)that the EPO test is now thorough and full proof, so if (as many are suggesting- e.g Ventolin) Sanchez is doping, then surely we'll expect a positive test by the Summer, now that he's in the World's top 30. If we don't, then perhaps those who dismiss him now will accept he's the real deal. If they don't aknowledge this, then they are basically saying he's got away with it, and by implication, that the testing isn't robust enough. If that turns out to be the case, then how can these same paople be so certain that runners from the early 00's (when the test was first introduced- there wasn't a test in the 90's at all)were completely legit?
When you look at those results of the 1500 from ten years ago or so, there are some factors you have to take into account. I think 3:29 is more of a magical barrier than 3:30. People have broken 3:30 every recent year except in 2008, the Olympic year, when times were a lesser concern than shooting for that Olympic medal. Look at the guys who have broken 3:29 - El G, Lagat, Ngeny, Morceli, Fermin Cacho, and Mehdi Baala. Daniel Kipchirchir "sounds like a bird call" Komen and Rashid Ramzi came very close in 2006. Cacho and Baala broke 3:29 after being dragged along my El G in their races.
It would be easy to say that the guys from this era were doped to the gills. But in my mind, Lagat, Ngeny and El G (Morceli was more on an early 90s guy) all competed against each other fiercely in the mid 90s to early Aughts. They obviously pushed each other to run fast times. I think these guys represent an anomaly in the history of the 1500, when great competitors just pushed each other to run extremely fast times. Only these four ever ran consistently under 3:29. Others were dragged along (Baala and Cacho), but never could have done it without being in a race with El G or Lagat. When you get competitors like that, the performances might plateau for awhile instead of progress.
Only one man has broken 3:30 since 2006 (the last non-championship year)
Let's see what happens this year when these guys are more likely to be going after times since there is no Championship to peak for.
Actually, Ethiopians are Caucasian, just with dark skin. If you look at their facial features, you'll understand.
D MEKONNEN was not going to be denied in that outstanding run he shadowed the pacemakers and was not going to let anyone else past him. You often see in races when pacemakers step off there are sometime lead changes when 4-5 great competitors are competing; however, the look on Mekonnen showed his game plan- hammer and try to destroy the field.
Mekonnen looks like a clear favorite to defend his 1500m title but let's not hand him the medal yet as AUGUSTINE CHOGE looks like he's about to finally defeat his mental barriers. BERNARD LAGAT said he would not run any more 1500m Championship races and has been training for the 5000m. So a great turn of speed (only he and I think Steve Scott? has run faster indoor among Americans) for him of his increased distance training.
zone defense wrote:
And he never improved on that outdoors- but ran 3:49 indoors.
ventolin^2 wrote:you do know eamon set the european mile record aged 22y in '75 with 3'53.3, which at the time put him 6th on alltime list behind bayi, ryun, keino, jipcho & liquori
well, arithmetic dictates 3'51.5 in '83 is an improvement
toro wrote:
Only one man has broken 3:30 since 2006 (the last non-championship year)
Let's see what happens this year when these guys are more likely to be going after times since there is no Championship to peak for.
Sorry. Didn't do my research. Thought Keitany broke 3:30 last year.
epopians wrote:I'm assured by several on here (e.g Ventolin)that the EPO test is now thorough and full proof, so if (as many are suggesting- e.g Ventolin) Sanchez is doping, then surely we'll expect a positive test by the Summer, now that he's in the World's top 30. If we don't, then perhaps those who dismiss him now will accept he's the real deal. If they don't aknowledge this, then they are basically saying he's got away with it, and by implication, that the testing isn't robust enough. If that turns out to be the case, then how can these same paople be so certain that runners from the early 00's (when the test was first introduced- there wasn't a test in the 90's at all)were completely legit?
you are forgetting 2 things :
1) the epo test works only for detection within 3 - 4 days of injection ( not apparently for cera - i haven't seen details of that test ) : after that you can get away with it
2) use of "missed" tests by athletes : you are given leeway of 2 missed tests in 18 month span - 3rd one in that period gets you banned - athletes who are doping will probably try to "plan" a missed test in those 3 or 4 days after injection - providing the tester doesn't come back in the next 2 or 3 days , they might get away with just one missed test for one doping cycle - risk some may feel worth taking
as for sanchez, he was too lowly ranked an athlete for iaaf to have targeted for testing & i doubt spanish fed bothered either - you don't spend $400 dollars on epo-testing a 3'40++/13'20++ guy randomly - i see some missed tests however in sanchez' forseeable future as he tries to utilise 1) & 2)
Sure...but my point on Eamonn stands. The guy had downright wierd indoor chops.
ventolin^2 wrote:
[quote]zone defense wrote:
And he never improved on that outdoors- but ran 3:49 indoors.
[quote]
well, arithmetic dictates 3'51.5 in '83 is an improvement
psychologically, he appeared a broken 1500 man by '79
he missed out on a medal in '76 when he mistimed his kick & in '78 he got outsprinted by ovett
i think he'd accepted he wasn't going to beat these guys in tactical 1500s ( walker & ovett both brought 1'44 speed to the table - ovett more like mid-1'43 ( wr calibre ) ) & moved up
he'd given up more or less outdoor 1500/miles by '79 & stepped up to 5k & again mistimed his kick in '80 but finally won in '83
like moorcroft, he underestimated the strength that 5k training brought to 1500 & didn't seriously chase 1500 outdoors with this weapon after '80 ( look what aouita did with 5k endurance over 1500 in '85 ( also maree who got his 3'32pb down to 3'29.7 with simultaneous 13'01 ability ( 0.75s behind aouita's wr ))
his 3'51.5pb was when coming 5th in oslo in a mightily tight race, which ovett won in 3'50.4 - a race that eamon again left to a sprint finish ( which he was never going to win ) rather than the big push from 500 - 600m out which his 5k endurance wouda mandated
if he'd run a season of 1500s/miles in '83 with this tactic, he wouda very likely gone <<3'50, but he never had the confidence ( similar to moorcroft in '82, when 1'46 & likely 12'55 ability indicated he was capable of 3'30wr )