WOMEN ARE TOUGHER THAN MEN

i kinda agree, aside from the childbirth thing, the ratio of women who collapse near the end of or after races to men who do the same thing is remarkable. what is the explanation for this? either women are far less tough, or are able to take themselves to a far greater level of pain, hence the passing out and fainting, hence perhaps tougher.

maybe childbirth on an evolutionary scale has made females tougher, but there could also be myriad psychosocial aspects (i hate social science though).

but maybe Kipling was onto something more universal; after all he was a 4:30 miler....

quick question:

why did people randomnly decide that paula radcliffe is in more pain than her competitors? is it because of the bouncing head? we have absolutely no reason to believe that she is in more pain than them.

and if you go to a high-school cross-country race it's true that you will see more girls collapsing adn crying, but i have never seen one faint. very few boys collapse, and none cry but you are far more likely to see boys coughing up their intestines, and in severe oxygen debt for several minutes after their race. most of the girls are barely breathing hard. there is no doubt in my mind that those boys are far tougher than the girls, and that khalid khannouchi is far tougher than paula radcliffe. until we hear some stories of puala radcliffe breaking her leg 5 miles into a 14 mile training run, and finishing the run at just below her lactate threshold, as ryan shea did, don't argue with no basis that she is tougher.

ladies, don't bullshit about the whole childbirth stuff, until a male goes through it and shares his experience.

and i must say that i believe that testosterone clearly makes one far tougher. my reason-- i broke my arm once during pre-pubescense, and thought it was the worst pain in the world, and was practically crying over it, and was unable to handle the pain. just last month (i am now 24) i fell off a building and broke my arm, and stood up and walked to the hospitable. it had the exact same affect on my body, butnow i was mentally tough enough to handle it. same goes for my experience in running. in 6th grade when i started running i had trouble handling the pain, and would collapse and clench my teeth during and after my races, but now when i run i feel i am in even more pain, but have my wits about me to maintain relaxation and keep on my feet after hte race and cool-down and not put on a big show.

Childbirth? It's a natural process that's been going on for millions of years. The body prepares itself for it. You are there. You have no choice in the matter. You will endure.

Try getting your penis stuck in yout zipper. NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL REAL PAIN!!!!

Franks and beans!! Franks and beans!!

Why is it that women have not nearly the longevity of the men in this or any other sport. I don't think it's b/c men are designed to go longer, I think it's b/c they train harder, and more consistently. If women were designed to peak at age 21, then why do we see women like Regina Jacobs who's like 40 at the top of her game. Simple. A handful of women such as Jacobs and Favor-Hamilton are able to train as hard and tough as the men. When I see a girl who comes into college as a freshman that kicks ass, and then stops improving, that tells me she's not working as hard as the men who come into college as nothing, but come out as All-Americans.

why is it that when i see animals give birth on the learning channel, or discovery channel, none of the mothers are howling in agonizing pain? are humans the only mammals that hurt during this?

i'm telling you, it's the very fact that women can't handle pain that is making us believe that they can. Looking like you are in agony does not mean you have a higher pain tolerance.

i agree with who ever said maybe it is because they can't handle pain that they collapse, rather than their ability to push past pain.

how can you tell how puch pain someone else is in? You can't actually get in someone elses mind and figure out whether you can handle as much pain as that person. Does the fact that KK relaxes his neck mean that he is in less pain that Paula Radcliffe? hell no. That is as arbitrary as saying KK is not in pain because he smiles when he wins a race. And what does it mean that women have a higher pain tolerance. Does it mean they are mentally tougher or that their body naturally releases more pain killers so that they don't feel the pain. This whole toughness issue is a stupid discussion. There is absolutely no way to compare it and it has nothing to do with sex. Child birth absolutely cannot be compared to crapping out a 5 pound turd. That is ridiculous. Your ass isn't designed for that. And child birth may be painful but that doesn't mean that it is the most painful thing ever and no man has ever experienced anything like it. I'm sure more men have experienced torture during war that was more painful than child birth but that doesn't make them tougher.

fearless wrote:How can you tell how puch pain someone else is in? You can't actually get in someone elses mind and figure out whether you can handle as much pain as that person. Does the fact that KK relaxes his neck mean that he is in less pain that Paula Radcliffe? hell no. That is as arbitrary as saying KK is not in pain because he smiles when he wins a race.

Indeed. And Jason's idea that the Japanese women have a higher pain threshold because they were gruntin' and grimacing in a workout agony seems dubious to me.

Having watched a lot of Japanese ekidens and other races when I lived in Tokyo, I tend to think that a lot of that is acting to satisfy cultural expectations. In Japan, ganbatte-ing, giving it your all, is the only true virtue. And you'd better show it. It's just the opposite of the U.S., where it's much cooler if you make it look easy, because that means you have "talent."

I've got think, though, that all that energy spent putting up a brave face could be put to better use elsewhere in the body.

Gentlemen, just think about it.

If you had both parents in your household when you were growing up, think about what Dad did when he was sick. Laid on the couch and moaned while Mom brought him chicken noodle soup and the newspaper.

Now think about Mom when she was sick or maybe just having PMS day. She probably never stopped cooking your meals or washing your clothes or beating your ass when you needed it. Women inherently have the ability to keep moving no matter what. Of course they are stronger because they have to be.

I bet that if you punched the average woman in the stomach as hard as you can she would fall to the ground, whereas the average man would fight back. I have seen some women go through what I would classify as minor pains, and turn them into huge ordeals. I would guess men can tolerate more pain on the average than women.

16x wrote:

Gentlemen, just think about it.

If you had both parents in your household when you were growing up, think about what Dad did when he was sick. Laid on the couch and moaned while Mom brought him chicken noodle soup and the newspaper.

For one, my dad never laid on the couch moaning when he was sick (that's a tv sitcom stereotype), come to think of it I can never remember my dad getting sick. Plus I know an awful lot of women who make a big commotion about how awful they feel every 28 days. BTW, I'm not saying my mom's not tough too, because she is.

Good call on the sitcom stereotype. Hint: "The Simpsons" is not always an accurate portrayal of reality.

Check back with Paula when/if she gets around to having a kid and ask her what's more painful giving birth w/o an epidural or the marathon. I bet you dollars to krispy kreme she says labor is way worse. I have a cousin who runs ultras who swears athletic competition doesn't even compare to labor.

As to whether this proves women are tougher with pain in general, hell that's just a provacative unanswerable question.

idiotdetector wrote:Check back with Paula when/if she gets around to having a kid and ask her what's more painful giving birth w/o an epidural or the marathon. I bet you dollars to krispy kreme she says labor is way worse. . .

Well sure. You can train for a marathon, and the training hardens you to it physically and mentally. I'm not sure how you'd train for childbirth with the same specificity. (And no, reps of the Carol Burnett method wouldn't cut it.)

Last night my wife was cleaning her fingernails and cut herself under one. I've done this myself and it's uncomfortable, but no big deal. Yet she went on and on, is still going on a bit tonight, about how much it hurts. It made me wonder how she got through childbirth twice and I concluded, as has been mentioned here, that she had no choice as it was the culmination of a process started nine months earlier. We'll never know how a man would respond to it, but if it happened to one, he'd get through it as he also would have no alternative.

Pain differs from context to context. Runners teach themselves to tolerate certain kinds of pain but have no experience with other kinds. We don't know how much Paula Radcliffe hurts when she runs hard, and even if she is tougher about it than any man, it doesn't necessarily follow that ALL women tolerate pain better than ALL men. Nor does it rule out such a possibilty. It's an unanswerable question, but if throwing up during interval sessions is an indication of toughness, I'm there, or at least I was when I was younger and tougher.

Women are tough?

i could tell you how a woman could train for childbirth, but it might break your heart to know that your wife would have to spend a few nights away with me...

Any of you tough men out there want to put your head between my thighs for a test-drive?