Oh, and your beloved Kara is clean as a whistle. You people make me sick. I am not saying that Jeter is clean, or that Goucher isn't, but take a step back and read these posts. You could eat the racial animus with a fork...
Oh, and your beloved Kara is clean as a whistle. You people make me sick. I am not saying that Jeter is clean, or that Goucher isn't, but take a step back and read these posts. You could eat the racial animus with a fork...
Oh, and your beloved Kara is clean as a whistle. You people make me sick. I am not saying that Jeter is clean, or that Goucher isn't, but take a step back and read these posts. You could eat the racial animus with a fork...
Oh, and your beloved Kara is clean as a whistle. You people make me sick. I am not saying that Jeter is clean, or that Goucher isn't, but take a step back and read these posts. You could eat the racial animus with a fork...
i dont know if she clean or not - but I do know she ran a lil faster then that in college - maybe 11.7? but she did seem to always be hurt - but John Smith association is whats fishy to me
rayackwerh wrote:
10.64!
What more proof does everyone need? Her blatant drug cheating is making a mockery of womens athletics
Of all the things that have happened in the last few months, THIS is the thing that's making a mockery of women's athletics?
bobm wrote:
Oh, and your beloved Kara is clean as a whistle. You people make me sick. I am not saying that Jeter is clean, or that Goucher isn't, but take a step back and read these posts. You could eat the racial animus with a fork...
You must be new here. White American athletes garner as much speculation as anyone else. I recall some massive threads recently questioning Maggie Vessey and Christine Wurth-Thomas. Hell, Lance Armstrong's name has become synonymous with doping - now people just say "lanced" when they mean doped to the gills.
As for Kara Goucher, the fact that she won NCAA Cross Country tells you what kind of a talent she is. People who show flashes of brilliance at a young age - Kara, or Webb, or Teg, or Ritz, or Hall - then struggle, then finally make it back and pop a big one - that's not fishy. If the talent is there at a young age, it makes sense that they can become world class some day if they can work out the kinks.
It's the people who come out of nowhere to run huge times who raise suspicion.
wellllll wrote:
i dont know if she clean or not - but I do know she ran a lil faster then that in college - maybe 11.7? but she did seem to always be hurt - but John Smith association is whats fishy to me
Jeter is not Jamaican or Russian, she does not have a Russian or Jamaican coach (the people largely responsible for embarrassing the sport over drugs), therefore she is likely clean. The drug cases of Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, and the rest of Trevor Graham's crew all had a Jamaican connection, with Kelly White and Dwain Chambers with Korchemny.
Is this the Kara Goucher you're trying to parade in front of us as a doper? http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographies/letter=g/athcode=175599/index.html There aren't any crazy fast times in there that say drug cheat. She's placed highly in some more tactical races, but there's nothing in there shouting out cheater. Give us another cracker to pick on.
Jeter has shown a very steady progression in her 100m PRs since 2004:
2004 - 11.56
2006 - 11.48
2007 - 11.02
2008 - 10.97
2009 - 10.64
This is not what you would expect to see with someone using PEDs. The was no sudden spike in her performance.
If you accuse everyone of cheating, you will sometimes be right. Just as a broken clock is right twice a day.
Yeah, all she's done is shave .92 seconds off her PR in the 100 from her mid-to-late 20's. What good sprinter doesn't progress like that?
SoCal Pete wrote:
Yeah, all she's done is shave .92 seconds off her PR in the 100 from her mid-to-late 20's. What good sprinter doesn't progress like that?
See Ritz. Like Ritz, Jeter was the victim of mediocre coaching, and also like Ritz, she was injured a lot. The major jump really came when she first changed coaches in 2007, and it has continued under John Smith. The physical changes people have mentioned can be traced to going from essentially no weights at all to a program emphasizing bodybuilding methods under Smith.
I am a fan of Jeter, but then Marion Jones was my fave before she broke my heart.
Coach D wrote:
See Ritz. Like Ritz, Jeter was the victim of mediocre coaching, and also like Ritz, she was injured a lot. The major jump really came when she first changed coaches in 2007, and it has continued under John Smith. The physical changes people have mentioned can be traced to going from essentially no weights at all to a program emphasizing bodybuilding methods under Smith.
The difference, of course, is how drastic each change has been. In 2004 Ritz was still world class. He wasn't amazing, but he made the Olympic squad and ran 27:38, 25th fastest performer in the world at 10,000 meters.
In 2004 11.56 doesn't even make the IAAF list that year in the women's 100. The cutoff is 11.50, which 181 women achieved.
Fast forward to 2009 and Ritz's big breakthrough makes him the 44th fastest man of all-time over 5,000 meters. Jeter's 10.64 is suddenly 3rd all-time behind the proven doper (Jones) and the unproven-but-everyone-thinks-it doper (Flo-Jo).
Carmela was way worse than Ritz, and now is way better.
A better analogy would be finding some U.S. guy from 2004 who was just outside the IAAF list that year. The IAAF list stops at 13:39. Can we find any Americans who ran 13:39-13:45 that year who were a few years out of college? T&FN lists Ryan Bak & Jason Lehmkuhle at 13:38, Ahman Dirks, Dave Davis, Adam Tenforde, & Luke Watson at 13:39, Adam Goucher & Sean Graham at 13:41, and Clint Wells, Chris Graff, & Brad Hauser at 13:44. (Dobson, Ritz, Hall, and Solinsky were also in this range that year but they were not post-collegiate athletes so they don't qualify for this analogy).
So that's our list - Bak, Lehmkuhle, Dirks, Davis, Tenforde, Watson, Goucher, Graham, Wells, Graff, and Hauser. Aside from Goucher, I don't think any of these guys made any noise nationally, let alone on the world stage. Hell, most of these guys have probably been out of the sport a while, since 13:40 is such a borderline-type time.
Now can you picture one of these guys (already post-collegiates in 2004, mind you), suddenly becoming the next Daniel Komen 5 years later? Because Carmelia Jeter is on that level now. She is third all time! In order for one of our American boys to be third all time, he would have to squeeze himself between Geb and Daniel Komen!
It is impossible for a 2004 Ryan Bak, Jason Lehmkuhle, etc. to become a 2009 Daniel Komen. It is ridiculous. THAT'S how extreme this Carmelita Jeter business has become.
What could she do to make me a fan? Well, if she won't sleep with me, I guess we have a problem....
Otherwise the progression, etc, all that was so well stated makes me too suspicous..
Coach D wrote:
Jeter is not Jamaican or Russian, she does not have a Russian or Jamaican coach (the people largely responsible for embarrassing the sport over drugs),
Name a Jamaican who has embarassed the sport. For each one I will name you 10 Americans who have embarrased the sport even more.
not a fan wrote:
The difference, of course, is how drastic each change has been. In 2004 Ritz was still world class. He wasn't amazing, but he made the Olympic squad and ran 27:38, 25th fastest performer in the world at 10,000 meters.
Why don't you go back just one more year? In 2003 Ritz only ran a 13:39 5k. Oh, what was that? He was often injured. Oh, I forgot, injury is something that only happens to our white distance runners to explain mid career leaps in performance.
Oh, what was that? Ritz performance is not the third best of all time? Wow, I never new that the presence of faster Africans means that a white guy running 12:56 is a perfectly normal event.
Mental masturbation is all you are doing.
JND wrote:
Name a Jamaican who has embarassed the sport. For each one I will name you 10 Americans who have embarrased the sport even more.
Get off the "holier than thou attitude" YOU (Jamaica) are the assholes that have gone a long way toward destroying the sport:
The list of those barred from competing is long and includes Jamaica-born sprinters who trained elsewhere, for example Ben Johnson in Canada, Linford Christie and Dwain Chambers in England. Jerome Young and Patrick Jarrett (who were coached in the United States by another Jamaican expatriate Trevor Graham) also fell foul of the authorities. Merlene Ottey failed a steroid test in 1999, while training in Europe. But this was later ruled a laboratory error. Patrick Jarrett failed a steroids test in 2001 and Steve Mullings tested positive for testosterone in 2004.
Trevor Graham (a 1988 relay silver medallist for Jamaica) started a track camp in North Carolina featuring Marion Jones, who had passed more than 160 drug tests before finally acknowledging steroid use. In San Francisco in May, Graham was convicted on one felony count of lying to federal agents and awaits sentencing September 5.
Other Jamaican stars, including Asafa Powell's older brother Donovan, have tested positive for stimulants.
You can add other US-born athletes that were tarred by association with Jamaican Trevor Graham, including Justin Gatlin who provided evidence against Graham.
You can add HGH taker Ennis-London, caught red-handed ordering the stuff last year:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/09/02/jamaican.track/index.htmlMore from last year:
German sprinter Tobias Unger (29) called the Olympic 100m men’s final a “farce” and cast doubt on the legitimacy of superstar Usain Bolt’s win.
Unger voiced his complaints about the Jamaican sprinter to BILD sport, saying: “Bolt didn’t even warm up for the semi final. He showed up in shorts and jogging shoes, did his pickups and practice starts, put on his spikes and then ran the 100m in 9.92 seconds.
“Bolt ran a time of 9.8 seconds in May and again at the end of September. He showed no tiredness during training,” an annoyed Unger added.
“They do whatever they want on their island. Nothing happens to them. I’m the only one here at the Olympics who is registering with the doping controllers.”
Bolt apparently didn’t even know how to fill out the doping forms. The American sprinters’ coaches actually laughed when they heard about German doping controls.
Unger, who was cut in the semi-finals, threatened to quit: “I just don’t have the desire anymore.”
The whole island--and everyone in it--is rotten to the core.
Coach D wrote:
Get off the "holier than thou attitude" YOU (Jamaica) are the assholes that have gone a long way toward destroying the sport:
[quote]The list of those barred from competing is long and includes Jamaica-born sprinters who trained elsewhere, for example Ben Johnson in Canada, Linford Christie and Dwain Chambers in England. Jerome Young and Patrick Jarrett (who were coached in the United States by another Jamaican expatriate Trevor Graham) also fell foul of the authorities.
I'm not Jamaican idiot, I'm American. Good powers of assumption though.
I love the way Ben Johnson, who was born in Jamaica yet raised and competed for Cananda, is an example of Jamiacan cheaters. I also love the way you managed to make Young and Gatlin, American athletes, also an example of Jamaican cheaters. What next? I heard Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery vacationed in Jamaica once. Damn those Jamiacans are dirty.
Take a chill pill, you adult. I pray to God a wingnut like yourself is not really a coach. I can see you having a meeting with your kids and calling one of them an asshole that is destroying the team.
Coach D -
Comparing Ritz to Jeter isn't fair, because Ritz hasn't improved nearly as much. Now, if Ritz trained all through college, then another few years out of college, and if his PR was locked at 14:02 ... and if in his early-to-mid-thirties (probably an equivalent period for distance runners to a sprinter's late twenties) he suddenly dropped from that 14:02 to 12:56, now THAT would be an equivalent drop to Jeter's improvement.
Personally, I've never heard of an adult sprinter improving as much as Jeter. Even Marion Jones ran 11.1 in high school before cheating her way to a slower time than Jeter.
But here's the thing. Given the nature of sport today, I've become such a pessimist that even 12:56 makes me sigh. I know, I know, another bitter middle-aged pessimist. Guilty.
Coach D wrote:
Get off the "holier than thou attitude" YOU (Jamaica) are the assholes that have gone a long way toward destroying the sport:
Cockroach D...what rock did you crawl from under? It's the Jamaicans, namely Asafa Powell and now Usain Bolt, who have brought track and field back from the brink. Bolt has the world excited about T&F like no other person ever has. Prior to that, it was mostly cheating Americans (not all, but most) who tarnished the sport and almost sent it into obscurity The whole world knows this...except for you. You are displaying a deep jealousy of the Jamaican track juggernaut that we are finding quite flattering.
We thank you, but please, have some self-respect man, you're yourself look like a complete idiot.