Elites, question on how hard you push yourselves.

I wonder how a guy like webb feels on an average day out of race season. Is he on a daily basis pushing the envelope (pace I mean) when he doesnt feel well and run say 5:40 or really waiting to feel fresh a few days a week and then drop a 60 min run at 5:10 pace?

This is essentially my question

4:05 mile

If you read some of the Hansons logs on athleticore.com they talk about having good feeling and bad feeling days during their high mileage weeks.

They generally run anywhere from 6:10's to 6:45's on their easy days, and even the days when they're not feeling particularly good they'll still hang on if the group is running 6:10 pace.

I gather you're more interested in the mile than the marathon though, so this info might not help you much.

I agree.

Better to train at 90% and get to the line than end up injured and overtrained. At the same time, you never really know what your limit is till you cross it once or twice. I would urge caution. I always ran best when I was "comfortably tired" throughout the season but not totally beat.

4:33

10:05

I'm not elite, but have coached some pretty good runners. My rule of thumb is that if you feel like you could do only one or possibly two intervals at the same pace with the same recovery, your workout is over. If, after your recovery, your legs feel fresh enough to do three or four, then you're not done. Also, go more on effort than by the watch.

Lost at this one wrote:

That just shows you could have run better with a better training plan.

not necessarily true. Some people don't respond to volume/intensity. Maybe he never left it on the roads and saved it all for races. A 70 min half in hs indicates good strength and I'm sure he didn't get there lollygagging.

fattie wrote:

4:05 full mile

Is a "full mile" different than a normal mile in some way?

It's a worthwhile distinction because of the prevalence of 1500s and 1600s at the collegiate and high school levels, respectively.

Actually, I take that one back. Sorry for being an idiot; a mile is a mile.

not true a metric mile is different than a full mile. And technically it is correct to call a 1600 a metric mile. therefore i decided to make a distinction.

actually the 1500 is called the metric mile. Many people refer to 1600m races as mile races, but they are incorrect as we all know. It used to really bug me, but it's not a big deal, nor is someone saying a full mile instead of just mile.

I remember reading a quote from Frank Shorter about his intervals and he explained that he would run them until he was so fatigued, that if somebody walked up to him at the end of his workout, put a gun to his head,and told him to do another, he'd say "shoot me".

Then It talked about how easy his easy days were.

Stress, Recover, Improve

return of the P wrote:

actually the 1500 is called the metric mile. Many people refer to 1600m races as mile races, but they are incorrect as we all know. It used to really bug me, but it's not a big deal, nor is someone saying a full mile instead of just mile.

WTF is a "metric mile"? In countries using the meter system there is no such thing as a "mile".

When I was on a training camp on the Canary Islands in early 2000 I spoke with Stephanie Graf (Olympic silver 2000) and she said she trained so hard it was impossible to do anything but training. She tried to read but she didn´t understand one bit. She was too tired to even watch tv, so she just laid on her bed staring in the ceiling.

NOO wrote:

WTF is a "metric mile"?

The 1500m... because its our metric version of the mile

usually no one ever calls it that, but a couple of times a 1500 race has been shown on tv and i have heard it being referred to as the metric mile.

Fattie,

In general you should be feeling pleasantly tired by the end of most runs, even on interval sessions. Most elites follow very detailed approaches with built in recovery runs and hard efforts by which to allow for adaption to quicker speeds at there chosen events. Unfortunately not everyones approach works at avoiding injury and feeling great all of the time. That is why it is important to be very thoughtful with your training and have resources such as a coach to provide objectivity and specialized stucture to your training. There are many elements that need addressing to allow for injury free enjoyable training which also pushes you to faster and faster times on the track.

400m- 49.68

800m- 1:47.80

1000m- 2:19

1mile- 3:58

1500m- 3:39.12

5km- 14:13

10km- 30:34

This is a great description, and nails down what I wanted to say. When I am training hard, I feel great when I am running, but the other 22 hours of the day I am so tired that I feel numb. It's a really strange feeling, and I have just started to experience it as my training has gotten more legit.

Swedish coach wrote:

When I was on a training camp on the Canary Islands in early 2000 I spoke with Stephanie Graf (Olympic silver 2000) and she said she trained so hard it was impossible to do anything but training. She tried to read but she didn´t understand one bit. She was too tired to even watch tv, so she just laid on her bed staring in the ceiling.

Some vague elite, are you in fact elite? PR's?

I am sorry for asking for PR's I am not trying to be a dick. It is just that I feel I know a decent amount about training and have run fairly fast (not that you can't know a lot and be slow) and I am wondering how to take the next step.

Last question Some Vague Elite should morning runs be totally relaxed or at a steady effort?

I am torn on this one.

fattie wrote:

Some vague elite, are you in fact elite? PR's?

Good enough to get into the Oly Trials

fattie wrote:

Last question Some Vague Elite should morning runs be totally relaxed or at a steady effort?

I am torn on this one.

As malmo wisely says over and over, you are over thinking it. I have morning runs where I crawl, I have morning runs that turn into progression runs, it all depends on what I (and my coach) think I need, and ultimately how I feel.

quote? wrote:

...Then It talked about how easy his easy days were.

Stress, Recover, Improve

Bingo. When I ran for Penn State, nobody on the team understood this except two other guys and me. We ran SO INCREDIBLY slow on recovery days. The rest of the team raced each other on easy days. Guess who led in races?