Men's Trials in Central Park a disservice to competitors

Weary wrote:

The Central Park course is NOT the full six-mile loop and it does not include the most severe hills at the northern end. This has been made very clear in all the news releases.

But apparently not clear enough for the more dimwitted posters on this fine posting site.

i would hope they would run fast anyway. they did in 2004.

by the way, i think someone asked what the course would be like in beijing. beijing itself is basically flat. there are hills/mountains surrounding the city but i doubt they would use them in a course.

Nowhere man wrote:

It is not out of the question that Meb, Culpepper, Sell, and Ritz could have a bad race in the spring of 2007 (ie not finish, craps, ect). That would put them in a position to have to run fast at the trials. And I am guessing you would like at least a couple of these guys on the team.

If the trials course is difficult it makes it harder to be on the team regardless of the individuals talent.

Nowhere Man

How difficult is it to understand that that course which excludes the hills in the northern part of the park isn't all that difficult?

But Kudzu, this is sooooooo unfair to runners without shoe deals or legitimate talent. Those darned NYC hills have already psyched out the second tier and weak minded types who need perfect weather, a flat course, and a miracle bigger than those in the Bible to snag that third Olympic team spot.

That's how I read this thread: The childhood dream of making the Olympics has been dashed for quite a few (who probably won't qualify to begin with) and the course favors "professionals" with the skills to be truly competitive. In a nutshell, there likely won't be a Trent Briney or Jenny Spangler in NYC because the big dogs have the advantage on a criterium course with hills.

In addition, the lesser qualifiers are probably miffed about NYC because they won't get any love. In a place like Akron, they would get treated like kings for the weekend. In NYC, more learned fans and the press will focus on Meb, Ritz, Shay, etc. and the Africans racing on Sunday. That's a serious ego deflator for Mr. 2:21 and Change - the "athlete" being shortchanged by USATF and NYRRC.

Oh man you must be on crack. I will put money on it that you will hardly see a crowd out there watching the Olympic Trials. 1) The average marathoner (5 hours) who will be in town for the NYC marathon has no clue who these runners are and would rather walk around NYC to shop etc. They are not going to spend the day watching the trials. A lot of the runners don\'t follow the sport like we do. And if some do your are way over guessing the number of Sunday marathoners and their families showing up. If soemone traveled with their spouse or significant other or whatever the non-runner is not going to want to spend two full days watching the races. They already have to watch their significant other on Sunday! 2) The avg. NYer is not going to show up to watch this race, if they are going to watch anything they will wait until Sunday and get drunk along 1st avenue and 5th avenue. They have no clue who is actually racing to win even in the regular race and are definitely not going to show up to watch the trials. 3? NYC doesn\'t even draw a crowd for big track meets or US National Races held in the park no matter how much publicity the media gives it. Look at Melrose games for instance, a great meet but its NEVER sold out. I have been to the US National 8km and there is NO ONE out there watching except a few people finishing up their own runs.

You need to face reality no matter how you try to hype this this is NYC and there are way too many other things to do besides watch a marathon for two days in a row!

This idea is going to backfire.

The northern Loop is only cutting out ONE HILL. The rest of the course is still rolling and after 26.2 miles this will be a factor. Yes they can run fast for an 8km but 4 times that distance the hills will take their toll. It will be on par with the actual NYC course in regards to time. Probably looking at 2:12 - 2:13 for a winning time.

Shameless Marketeer wrote:

In NYC, more learned fans and the press will focus on Meb, Ritz, Shay, etc. and the Africans racing on Sunday. That's a serious ego deflator for Mr. 2:21 and Change - the "athlete" being shortchanged by USATF and NYRRC.

This is why people hated the fact that it was going to be in NY. Wannabes like this asshole roll out their superior attitude and act like they have a deeper understanding of the event than anywhere else in the country, ripping a 2:21 qualifier when they can't sniff that time themselves.

"Learned" fans? What a joke, go deflate your fat head jackass.

Thank you. My exact assessment.

Shameless Marketeer wrote:

That's a serious ego deflator for Mr. 2:21 and Change - the "athlete" being shortchanged by USATF and NYRRC.

Shameless Marketeer, what's your PR??? Be honest now.

Actually wrote:

The northern Loop is only cutting out ONE HILL. The rest of the course is still rolling and after 26.2 miles this will be a factor. Yes they can run fast for an 8km but 4 times that distance the hills will take their toll. It will be on par with the actual NYC course in regards to time. Probably looking at 2:12 - 2:13 for a winning time.

so basically as fast as they ran in 2004. sounds like this course will really cause problems.

I think you're wrong on all counts. In fact, this will be a Perfect Storm, as running events go.

When was the last Olympic-related event held in NYC? New Yorkers--and I am and will always be one, not to mention a guy who raced dozens of races in Central Park and trained for marathons there--think they have everything, but the words "New York" and "Olympics" haven't really gotten a chance to.....party. The media, which makes Marathon Sunday into a big deal already, will hype this as a rare chance to see Olympians in action.

Of the 40,000-odd entrants in Sunday's marathon, I guarantee you that a) ALL the single men will go to the trials race, and b) at least half of the married men will drag their wives and GFs along, regardless of what's going down on Sunday. As for the single and married female Sunday marathoners: half the sights they were planning on seeing anyway on Saturday are within walking distance of the Park--the museums, shopping, Broadway. Most of them will be there.

I was in Birmingham; I zipped two and fro on the criterium course. I saw how many people were there.

Van Cortlandt Park and the Armory aren't Central Park. Central Park--and a five lap race with the best American runners, at least one of whom is now a commercial spokesman--will draw bodies.

Correction: "to," not "two."

(If I failed to correct, you might think I really was on crack.)

I honestly disagree with you. I do not see this being a huge draw just becuase you put NYC and Olmpic Trials together. I am hedging a big bet that you will not see huge crowds. Seriously you may be a NYer but you are a dork runner like the rest of us and we get excited about stuff like this. NON RUNNERS DO NOT. They will be out partying Sunday and they will not alter their plans because this is the Olmpic trials. The ONLY reason so many people show up on Marathon Sunday is to drink. If there were bars lined up along Central park I would agree with you but there isnt so these avg. NYers who drink on Marathon Sunday are not going to go sit out in Central Park and watch a few guys pass by them every 32- 35 minutes. People are attracted to the marathon on Sunday because thousands of people pass by them. Only a 100 or so guys will be running the trials and will pass by you once five times for about 30 seconds of viewing pleasure. For non-runners this spells BORING.

And you will not get a non-runner to speed around the park to view the race in different locations.

I love how all these people chime in as if they know. Are you from NY? Do you know the course/central park? You run slower on this course period!!! Mottram ran 28:13 for 10k there. The course record is 28:10. You can expect to run at least 10 sec a m ile slower ( more for the slower pack) in central park. 2:08 becomes 2:12, 2:09 - 2:13, etc. Get it ???

say what? wrote:

MarathonMind wrote:

I think people are missing your point here, which is that the Central Park course is 4 full laps of the park plus 2.2. That is a lot of hills. I don't think even the best runners could manage better than 2:16 on it, even if run clockwise, which is the easier direction.

Are you talking the same course where the US 8k winner routinely runs a very fast time despite the hills? You are absolutely insane if you think that Meb, Culpepper, Abdi, Brown, Sell, Ritz, et. al will not be able to break 2:15 on ANY course set in NY city. Meb easily broke 2:15 in Athens, and Culpepper almost did the same- I'm pretty sure that the conditions/course will not be anywhere near as tough as it was then. Barring awful weather conditions, the 2008 Trials will be as fast (and deeper) than it was in 2004.

Oh man, I totally disagree with you on this as well. NYC is the media capital of the world and with the Times and the Daily News and the Post all doing pieces on this in the lead up, the crowd will be huge. NYC and the Olympics? A no-brainer that there will be a ton of interest in this. They need to pick Saturday and go with that so that there is a chance for maximum exposure.

On any given good weather saturday or sunday, you have thousands and thousands of New Yorkers who go to the park just to hang out. Put a well marketed even there and you've got a serious audience.

Let's go over this one more time. The 10k that Mottram ran includes the northern hill loop...which includes TWO tough hills if you're running clockwise ...and this marathon will NOT include that loop. Okay...what's next?

Like the other guy just said this is NYC. The times, post, daily snooze and all the TV stations will be hyping it, as will the NYRR. They got plenty of exposure in friggin Birmingham Alabama and you don't think anyone will show up in NYC? Please.

Do you think the media darlings of NYC will hype up a running race. Please give me a break. This is RUNNING. It can only be hyped up so much. The Milrose Games for instance is the oldest indoor track meet in the country with a top notc field and MAJOR media exposure and they cant get 10,000 people to show up.

Just because this is the Olympic trials doesn't mean the draw is going to be any bigger. This is running plain and simple.

Actually wrote:

The northern Loop is only cutting out ONE HILL. The rest of the course is still rolling and after 26.2 miles this will be a factor. Yes they can run fast for an 8km but 4 times that distance the hills will take their toll. It will be on par with the actual NYC course in regards to time. Probably looking at 2:12 - 2:13 for a winning time.

Which will be different from the past in what way?