Starting to think Ritz might just be another Jerry in terms of his coaching style. I remember during the Hobbs Kessler interview on Coffee Club, Hobbs mentioned that he does his easy runs at 7:00-7:30 pace, and one of the guys mentioned he can’t remember the last time they ran a mile close to that slow. Look how well Hobbs is running right now and look how well the OAC guys are running (or not running).
I mean it's blatantly clear that Dathan is a 5000m coach whose runners just so happen to have the wheels to run the 1500m - which is what when those little lights are zipping around the track and nice even 56's, his guys are fine. In these races I think the reality is he really hasn't provided them/fostered the tools to be truly comfortable navigating rounds and athletes their talent suggests they should do with ease. Now in the final this won't matter because it's going to be 1.51/2.47 at 1200m, but with time qualification being removed in these heats/semis etc, there is no real incentive for early rounds to be fast and that's why we saw 2/3 races out in well over 2min - very old school. You will see the same in RC round and at least one of the semis will be a dawdle. These guys will struggle if they luck-out with the wrong race.
Dathan coaches the way he trained as an athlete. I think you can be a good coach that way (especially if you were a good athlete which he was) - I don't think you will ever be a great coach doing that and I don't think he is - despite the massive amount of hype which honestly is more a function of a new, hot brand in the game with a ton of $ to spend on product development and infrastructure which has created culture through momentum vs excellence at a coaching level.
It’s more than just that he coaches them like 5k guys. They show up to championships and are toast. Olli and Mario didn’t look good and were falling off a slow pace. A faster pace wouldn’t have helped.
OAC is having a rough year all round. Beamish has been a high point, but he's injured now. The interviews you hear from some of the group and externals who have trained with them (like Kessler and Ben Flanagan) suggest that they're pushing very hard on both volume and intensity. I wonder if Ritz is reviewing his programme. He's still a young coach and learning as he goes. The balance certainly seems to be off right now as his athletes are usually in poor shape for the major champs.
Beamish is injured? Elaborate
He's been saying on Coffee Club for a few weeks that he was a little banged up. I don't know if he's over it now, but he was hurting when he ran his steeple NR recently.
I mean it's blatantly clear that Dathan is a 5000m coach whose runners just so happen to have the wheels to run the 1500m - which is what when those little lights are zipping around the track and nice even 56's, his guys are fine. In these races I think the reality is he really hasn't provided them/fostered the tools to be truly comfortable navigating rounds and athletes their talent suggests they should do with ease. Now in the final this won't matter because it's going to be 1.51/2.47 at 1200m, but with time qualification being removed in these heats/semis etc, there is no real incentive for early rounds to be fast and that's why we saw 2/3 races out in well over 2min - very old school. You will see the same in RC round and at least one of the semis will be a dawdle. These guys will struggle if they luck-out with the wrong race.
Dathan coaches the way he trained as an athlete. I think you can be a good coach that way (especially if you were a good athlete which he was) - I don't think you will ever be a great coach doing that and I don't think he is - despite the massive amount of hype which honestly is more a function of a new, hot brand in the game with a ton of $ to spend on product development and infrastructure which has created culture through momentum vs excellence at a coaching level.
It’s more than just that he coaches them like 5k guys. They show up to championships and are toast. Olli and Mario didn’t look good and were falling off a slow pace. A faster pace wouldn’t have helped.
Yeah I kind of didn't want to mention this element but you are right. I kind of cringed when I heard about the final "big workout" the other day - I mean this is coaching 101 - there are no gains you are going to make from a workout inside 2 weeks from a meet like the Olympics - you are only going to start discharging the battery so to speak and compromising your guys. That is pure lack of confidence stuff. Then you see the guys out there all look flat (literally all of them - included Yared) and you start to wonder.
Look ON have clearly had a ton of money to spend on very good athletes and infrastructure - positive things are going to happen irrespective of who the coach was. But the acid test is now - and it really is in 45min or so when those guys come out for the RC round in the 1500 - if Messrs Hoare, Mills, Garcia all bomb yet again, I think we have really start to get a clearer picture of his true competence - especially coaching 1500m guys.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Yeah I kind of didn't want to mention this element but you are right. I kind of cringed when I heard about the final "big workout" the other day - I mean this is coaching 101 - there are no gains you are going to make from a workout inside 2 weeks from a meet like the Olympics - you are only going to start discharging the battery so to speak and compromising your guys. That is pure lack of confidence stuff. Then you see the guys out there all look flat (literally all of them - included Yared) and you start to wonder.
Look ON have clearly had a ton of money to spend on very good athletes and infrastructure - positive things are going to happen irrespective of who the coach was. But the acid test is now - and it really is in 45min or so when those guys come out for the RC round in the 1500 - if Messrs Hoare, Mills, Garcia all bomb yet again, I think we have really start to get a clearer picture of his true competence - especially coaching 1500m guys.
Well-said. Certainly no need for Hoare who went to his limit in Monaco or Nuguse who did the same. The big workout thing is maybe for guys who don’t race between Trials and Olympics. To save face you need good Repechage efforts.
On the Mills thing, he might just need to accept the 5,000 might just be his event. We’ll see if he bounces back, but he is giving me Cooper Teare vibes and I’m not meaning to discredit that he is solid on the circuit. But that is different than championship racing.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Yeah I kind of didn't want to mention this element but you are right. I kind of cringed when I heard about the final "big workout" the other day - I mean this is coaching 101 - there are no gains you are going to make from a workout inside 2 weeks from a meet like the Olympics - you are only going to start discharging the battery so to speak and compromising your guys. That is pure lack of confidence stuff. Then you see the guys out there all look flat (literally all of them - included Yared) and you start to wonder.
Look ON have clearly had a ton of money to spend on very good athletes and infrastructure - positive things are going to happen irrespective of who the coach was. But the acid test is now - and it really is in 45min or so when those guys come out for the RC round in the 1500 - if Messrs Hoare, Mills, Garcia all bomb yet again, I think we have really start to get a clearer picture of his true competence - especially coaching 1500m guys.
Well-said. Certainly no need for Hoare who went to his limit in Monaco or Nuguse who did the same. The big workout thing is maybe for guys who don’t race between Trials and Olympics. To save face you need good Repechage efforts.
On the Mills thing, he might just need to accept the 5,000 might just be his event. We’ll see if he bounces back, but he is giving me Cooper Teare vibes and I’m not meaning to discredit that he is solid on the circuit. But that is different than championship racing.
Well, Romo Garcia just looked absolutely terrible out there for the second day in the row. Sad stuff.
Olli looked better but tied up down the home stretch. Dathan has gotten lucky with some incredibly talented athletes the last few years. If he keeps coaching like this, his luck will run out quickly. Mario will be gone by the end of the year. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t leave after this rough year. Olli has missed the last three outdoor global finals. Beamish has stopped posting on Strava, which makes me nervous. If Morgan doesn’t make the final, if Sonya Bonn’s out of the first round, if Helen has a rough marathon…
Starting to think Ritz might just be another Jerry in terms of his coaching style. I remember during the Hobbs Kessler interview on Coffee Club, Hobbs mentioned that he does his easy runs at 7:00-7:30 pace, and one of the guys mentioned he can’t remember the last time they ran a mile close to that slow. Look how well Hobbs is running right now and look how well the OAC guys are running (or not running).
Rumbles out there that not everyone is a happy camper under Ritz and his coaching.
Starting to think Ritz might just be another Jerry in terms of his coaching style. I remember during the Hobbs Kessler interview on Coffee Club, Hobbs mentioned that he does his easy runs at 7:00-7:30 pace, and one of the guys mentioned he can’t remember the last time they ran a mile close to that slow. Look how well Hobbs is running right now and look how well the OAC guys are running (or not running).
I mean it's blatantly clear that Dathan is a 5000m coach whose runners just so happen to have the wheels to run the 1500m - which is what when those little lights are zipping around the track and nice even 56's, his guys are fine. In these races I think the reality is he really hasn't provided them/fostered the tools to be truly comfortable navigating rounds and athletes their talent suggests they should do with ease. Now in the final this won't matter because it's going to be 1.51/2.47 at 1200m, but with time qualification being removed in these heats/semis etc, there is no real incentive for early rounds to be fast and that's why we saw 2/3 races out in well over 2min - very old school. You will see the same in RC round and at least one of the semis will be a dawdle. These guys will struggle if they luck-out with the wrong race.
Dathan coaches the way he trained as an athlete. I think you can be a good coach that way (especially if you were a good athlete which he was) - I don't think you will ever be a great coach doing that and I don't think he is - despite the massive amount of hype which honestly is more a function of a new, hot brand in the game with a ton of $ to spend on product development and infrastructure which has created culture through momentum vs excellence at a coaching level.
But of course it is not the critic who counts…it is the man in the arena. So ponder that for a bit before your next post.
Olli looked better but tied up down the home stretch. Dathan has gotten lucky with some incredibly talented athletes the last few years. If he keeps coaching like this, his luck will run out quickly. Mario will be gone by the end of the year. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t leave after this rough year. Olli has missed the last three outdoor global finals. Beamish has stopped posting on Strava, which makes me nervous. If Morgan doesn’t make the final, if Sonya Bonn’s out of the first round, if Helen has a rough marathon…
Hoare still looked awful. It was a tactically awful performance when it was almost perfectly set up for him to ride in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th until the final 150, but he took the lead with 800 to go. He's not Jakob, Kerr, or Tim C. He might like to think of himself as a frontrunner but evidence suggests that's not the case. He should have walked through to the semi and he screwed the pooch.
Morgan will be super lucky to get to the 5k final. I'd like to think Nuguse will improve and Beamish could even pick up a bronze if things fall for him. But that would be papering over the cracks of what has been two disappointing champs in a row given that Nuguse should certainly have won a medal in Budapest.
Obiri might be a bright spot as I think she'll win the marathon but I guarantee that she gets more say in her own training than the rest of the team.
It’s more than just that he coaches them like 5k guys. They show up to championships and are toast. Olli and Mario didn’t look good and were falling off a slow pace. A faster pace wouldn’t have helped.
Yeah I kind of didn't want to mention this element but you are right. I kind of cringed when I heard about the final "big workout" the other day - I mean this is coaching 101 - there are no gains you are going to make from a workout inside 2 weeks from a meet like the Olympics - you are only going to start discharging the battery so to speak and compromising your guys. That is pure lack of confidence stuff. Then you see the guys out there all look flat (literally all of them - included Yared) and you start to wonder.
Look ON have clearly had a ton of money to spend on very good athletes and infrastructure - positive things are going to happen irrespective of who the coach was. But the acid test is now - and it really is in 45min or so when those guys come out for the RC round in the 1500 - if Messrs Hoare, Mills, Garcia all bomb yet again, I think we have really start to get a clearer picture of his true competence - especially coaching 1500m guys.
Doing a hard workout 10-14 days out from a goal race is a very reasonable thing to do / what most people do anyways
Doing a hard workout 10-14 days out from a goal race is a very reasonable thing to do / what most people do anyways
The question is how big. Hoare was coming off probably the hardest race in his life going out incredibly hard through 1200m in Monaco and then traveling off of that to race and win London in a scrappy effort. Few guys did both for a reason. Certainly after doing both, crushing a workout was unnecessary and it should’ve been a standard workout in my eyes.
Yeah I kind of didn't want to mention this element but you are right. I kind of cringed when I heard about the final "big workout" the other day - I mean this is coaching 101 - there are no gains you are going to make from a workout inside 2 weeks from a meet like the Olympics - you are only going to start discharging the battery so to speak and compromising your guys. That is pure lack of confidence stuff. Then you see the guys out there all look flat (literally all of them - included Yared) and you start to wonder.
Look ON have clearly had a ton of money to spend on very good athletes and infrastructure - positive things are going to happen irrespective of who the coach was. But the acid test is now - and it really is in 45min or so when those guys come out for the RC round in the 1500 - if Messrs Hoare, Mills, Garcia all bomb yet again, I think we have really start to get a clearer picture of his true competence - especially coaching 1500m guys.
Doing a hard workout 10-14 days out from a goal race is a very reasonable thing to do / what most people do anyways
I don't know if I'd want someone to call my last workout "big," but it seems pretty reasonable to maintain intensity and cut volume during the time before a race. So, agree, doing hard efforts in the build up should not be a big deal.
something definitely wrong with Ollie. to see him close so poorly 2 days in a row is worrisome. a nagging injury, overtraining, or a mental thing. he had such a promising season after returning from that injury, hate to see it end like that.
But of course it is not the critic who counts…it is the man in the arena. So ponder that for a bit before your next post.
So objectively you think a guy that just came off winning a Diamond league mile event and that has a sub 3.30 PR not making it past either the first round or the repecharge round is a par for the course performance?
Im actually bummed for him - I have nothing against Hoare. I just think he’s being let down badly by his coach/mentorship team.