Maybe. But the competition in both 1500's included the best in the world and his greatest rivals. I don't think that in '80 and '84 there were Africans or Russians at the same level in those events. That changed later in the 80's. The best contender in '84 ran in the 5000. Aouita.
Not "maybe". A fact.
No, many of the best were missing. 7 of the 10 fastest of 1980 were not in Moscow.
None of the Americans who didn't run at Moscow were the level of Coe and Ovett, and none of the Russians who boycotted Los Angeles.
OP has already forgotten Centro in 2016. Clearly the greatest ever 1500m final. Textbook race in terms of how to dominate.
It is the Josey Barthel ('52 Helsinki) win in the 21st century. The least likely and the least impressive. A mixture of canniness and luck. It was his only big win. Unlike the greats, he was never the best amongst his peers. They ran a terrible race that day.
We believe in making our own luck. Didn’t someone say luck is when preparation meets opportunity? Well I agree with you that Centro’s win was due to canniness and preparation meeting opportunity.
El G's victory was a great race but because he only just made it it wasn't as great a victory as Elliott's, who absolutely crushed his competitors, as did Snell. The degree of superiority these great runners had over their competition is one of the factors that emphasizes their position in the sport.
7 years later, Elliott's WR was bettered by 2.5 seconds. 26 years later, 59 athletes have bettered his WR.
26 years later, El G's WR still stands.
In the former, doping wasn't known in md running; with the latter it was the height of doping in the sport. It continues today. However the discussion isn't about world records but Olympic victories. El G never set a world record at the Olympics. Elliott did.
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It is the Josey Barthel ('52 Helsinki) win in the 21st century. The least likely and the least impressive. A mixture of canniness and luck. It was his only big win. Unlike the greats, he was never the best amongst his peers. They ran a terrible race that day.
We believe in making our own luck. Didn’t someone say luck is when preparation meets opportunity? Well I agree with you that Centro’s win was due to canniness and preparation meeting opportunity.
I don't disagree with that but it means his race isn't at the level achieved in some of the others discussed here, which had less to do with luck than utter superiority.
3:35.6 on cinders, he won by nearly 3 seconds, taking the lead before the 800m mark.
He had basically taken 1959 off to focus on his family and studies, and only began serious training (and 'stopped smoking') in the winter.
Still, he had barely raced anybody of note since 1958.
Six weeks before the Olympics he had become ill and had been vomiting, and two days before the final he developed a sore throat and swollen glands.
Yet still crushed the field and broke his own WR.
And he was still only 22.
On the Paris track and supershoes, he would probably have run 3:27 conservatively.
Although his coach Percy Cerutty was obviously ahead of his time in some respects, a lot of his coaching ideas were a bit cookie too. And as far as I know, Elliott never did any high-altitude training (unlike Michel Jazy in second). And all this was before blooddoping was a thing, let alone EPO.
It's hard to argue against this. A WR 3.35.6 in this era running the way he did, in the Olympic final - epic. Without factoring in important nuances etc it's like Jakob going out and running 3.25.8 in the Paris final.
Keinos 3.34.91 at Mexico City's 7400ft altitude was a pretty impressive victory (even though it's pretty clear his upbringing at approximately the same altitude probably helped that). His victory (2.98 seconds) was actually even slightly bigger than Elliots (2.8) but accounting for HT v ET it was probably almost identical.
Only thing I might disagree with, I don't know if the track and spikes is quite that much of an automatic bump, but no doubt a time much quicker than the 3.35 he posted.
It's hard to argue, although Snell's win was pretty dominant too. I don't think the other 1500m runners in either 1960 or 1964 ever thought they could beat Elliott/Snell, and they were right.
Keino's win was certainly surprisingly dominant, but he did have the altitude and Jipcho's pace setting to help.
3:35.6 on cinders, he won by nearly 3 seconds, taking the lead before the 800m mark.
He had basically taken 1959 off to focus on his family and studies, and only began serious training (and 'stopped smoking') in the winter.
Still, he had barely raced anybody of note since 1958.
Six weeks before the Olympics he had become ill and had been vomiting, and two days before the final he developed a sore throat and swollen glands.
Yet still crushed the field and broke his own WR.
And he was still only 22.
On the Paris track and supershoes, he would probably have run 3:27 conservatively.
Although his coach Percy Cerutty was obviously ahead of his time in some respects, a lot of his coaching ideas were a bit cookie too. And as far as I know, Elliott never did any high-altitude training (unlike Michel Jazy in second). And all this was before blooddoping was a thing, let alone EPO.
It's hard to argue against this. A WR 3.35.6 in this era running the way he did, in the Olympic final - epic. Without factoring in important nuances etc it's like Jakob going out and running 3.25.8 in the Paris final.
Keinos 3.34.91 at Mexico City's 7400ft altitude was a pretty impressive victory (even though it's pretty clear his upbringing at approximately the same altitude probably helped that). His victory (2.98 seconds) was actually even slightly bigger than Elliots (2.8) but accounting for HT v ET it was probably almost identical.
Only thing I might disagree with, I don't know if the track and spikes is quite that much of an automatic bump, but no doubt a time much quicker than the 3.35 he posted.
Yeah it's one where Coevett is mostly on the money outside of some fanciful time conversions.
Keino and Coe '84 the other two contenders. Keino did have a pacer and major altitude advantage. Coe 39.3 last 300 to run 3:32 and crush Cram deserves plenty of credit too. I can't quite get to including Jakob because it feels like if you had a fully healthy Tim that race is much closer and now the time doesn't surprise us as much as it did then.
No, many of the best were missing. 7 of the 10 fastest of 1980 were not in Moscow.
None of the Americans who didn't run at Moscow were the level of Coe and Ovett, and none of the Russians who boycotted Los Angeles.
Paige would have won the 800m in Moscow as he was on fire in 1980, and Scott would have likely won the 1500m as he was just entering his best years. Walker may well have gotten a medal in the 1500m as well. The 1980 boycott was one of the greatest "what ifs" of American distance running as there was a genuine possibility of Americans sweeping all of the men's distance events from 800m through to the marathon.
None of the Americans who didn't run at Moscow were the level of Coe and Ovett, and none of the Russians who boycotted Los Angeles.
Paige would have won the 800m in Moscow as he was on fire in 1980, and Scott would have likely won the 1500m as he was just entering his best years. Walker may well have gotten a medal in the 1500m as well. The 1980 boycott was one of the greatest "what ifs" of American distance running as there was a genuine possibility of Americans sweeping all of the men's distance events from 800m through to the marathon.
Pure fancy. The best runners in the world won at Moscow and LA. At best you're talking about minor medals. Americans wouldn't have won any of the longer track events. They've showed that. Until the fluke of Centro in 2016 there'd been no track distance win since Wottle in '72.
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My gay admirer turns up again - as he always does. It is never about the thread.
But YOU turn up on EVERY thread - that is the problem, and make most threads unreadable because of it. Seriously, what is your mental disorder? Enquiring minds really want to know. Apart from spewing invectives, as that is all your arguments boil down to, since there is no point to them otherwise, we really don't understand why you post incessantly? Your history is flawed, but you simply don't, nor will you ever, understand that. So why do you post?
None of the Americans who didn't run at Moscow were the level of Coe and Ovett, and none of the Russians who boycotted Los Angeles.
Paige would have won the 800m in Moscow as he was on fire in 1980, and Scott would have likely won the 1500m as he was just entering his best years. Walker may well have gotten a medal in the 1500m as well. The 1980 boycott was one of the greatest "what ifs" of American distance running as there was a genuine possibility of Americans sweeping all of the men's distance events from 800m through to the marathon.
Did Paige race Coe and Ovett (or other top Europeans/Africans) at 800 in ‘79 or ‘80. What was the outcome? I always thought that T&F News ranking Paige #1 in the 800 in ‘80 was a bit generous.
Paige would have won the 800m in Moscow as he was on fire in 1980, and Scott would have likely won the 1500m as he was just entering his best years. Walker may well have gotten a medal in the 1500m as well. The 1980 boycott was one of the greatest "what ifs" of American distance running as there was a genuine possibility of Americans sweeping all of the men's distance events from 800m through to the marathon.
Did Paige race Coe and Ovett (or other top Europeans/Africans) at 800 in ‘79 or ‘80. What was the outcome?
Coe 39.3 last 300 to run 3:32 and crush Cram deserves plenty of credit too.
Coe 39.3 for 3:32.53
Aouita 39.0 for 3:29.71
El Guerrouj 39.7 for 3:26.00
Didn't know Aouita did that in an Olympic final in his 7th race in 9 days. I remember he tried it in Seoul when he thought Coe, Ovett, and Cram were finished, and only managed to get to the heats of the 1500 before pulling out claiming injury.
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