Hoppel ran an amazing race for the WIN at USATF Trials. I have no criticism of his RACE whatsoever.
As well as showing pure dominance (winning by almost a second), he showed that he can ran fast and toy with every American even running non-optimal splits physiologically:
24.08 / 27.13 / 26.09 / 25.49
51.20 / 51.57
What is your proof that those splits are non-optimal physiologically?
One has to put these recent fast times into some sort of historical perspective.
For a start, the current crop of half milers have no excuse for poor splits, when they have programmed light pacing in most races on the circuit, which is much more condusive for running even/optimal splits.
On top of this, the likes of Brazier, Hoppel, Arop, Wanyonyi, etc, have been using 'super shoes', enabling greater energy return (which is part of the reason why there have been so many relatively fast last 200m, historically the slowest part of the race), certainly since Brazier's breakthrough season of 2019, and possibly as far back as 2016 (where I believe they were first tested in Rio by some elites).
Then there are the 'fast tracks'. There are definitely some tracks that are faster than others, including several indoor ones. The commentators often refer to it and the athletes know too; actively seeking their record attempts at those that give greater energy return.
We also have Mondo claiming on a regular basis that the latest championship track is their 'fastest one ever.' This claim was made in 2019, 2020 (Olympics in Tokyo - 1% faster than previous - backed up by 400H WRs) and the 2021 Worlds in Eugene.
If you put these guys in 90's technology, you can add about a second to their times.
In my eyes Gray is still the fastest American 2 lap runner.
interesting graph07/07/2024 12:12pm EDT3 weeks ago
2019 - 4:01.80 2020 - 4:00.42 2021 - 3:58.81 2022- 3:59.31 2023 - 3:57.29 2024 (so far) - 3:50.83How often do deeply experienced athletes take 7 seconds off their 1500 PR in one year at the age of 27?Nike athlete. Who is her...
One has to put these recent fast times into some sort of historical perspective.
For a start, the current crop of half milers have no excuse for poor splits, when they have programmed light pacing in most races on the circuit, which is much more condusive for running even/optimal splits.
On top of this, the likes of Brazier, Hoppel, Arop, Wanyonyi, etc, have been using 'super shoes', enabling greater energy return (which is part of the reason why there have been so many relatively fast last 200m, historically the slowest part of the race), certainly since Brazier's breakthrough season of 2019, and possibly as far back as 2016 (where I believe they were first tested in Rio by some elites).
Then there are the 'fast tracks'. There are definitely some tracks that are faster than others, including several indoor ones. The commentators often refer to it and the athletes know too; actively seeking their record attempts at those that give greater energy return.
We also have Mondo claiming on a regular basis that the latest championship track is their 'fastest one ever.' This claim was made in 2019, 2020 (Olympics in Tokyo - 1% faster than previous - backed up by 400H WRs) and the 2021 Worlds in Eugene.
If you put these guys in 90's technology, you can add about a second to their times.
In my eyes Gray is still the fastest American 2 lap runner.
The superspike effect in the men’s 800 is arguable at best. The track effect sure might account for a little bit especially over 80s tracks. It also misses that Wanyonyi race in a perfectly standard track in Nairobi. The event being cyclical seems the most obvious factor. Look at how far the 400 has fallen on these same tracks. You don’t have to go back far to when nobody ran fast in the 800. This year you’ve had one historic race with intent from the alpha in the event. You need someone to go with the pace in the 800.
Hoppel ran an amazing race for the WIN at USATF Trials. I have no criticism of his RACE whatsoever.
As well as showing pure dominance (winning by almost a second), he showed that he can ran fast and toy with every American even running non-optimal splits physiologically:
24.08 / 27.13 / 26.09 / 25.49
51.20 / 51.57
What is your proof that those splits are non-optimal physiologically?
No proof, just studies of 1000s of elite and sub-elite runners.
Do you even follow the sport?
Literally over 99% of PBs among 800m runners worth talking about have a positive split (and by more than 0.37 seconds).
One has to put these recent fast times into some sort of historical perspective.
For a start, the current crop of half milers have no excuse for poor splits, when they have programmed light pacing in most races on the circuit, which is much more condusive for running even/optimal splits.
On top of this, the likes of Brazier, Hoppel, Arop, Wanyonyi, etc, have been using 'super shoes', enabling greater energy return (which is part of the reason why there have been so many relatively fast last 200m, historically the slowest part of the race), certainly since Brazier's breakthrough season of 2019, and possibly as far back as 2016 (where I believe they were first tested in Rio by some elites).
Then there are the 'fast tracks'. There are definitely some tracks that are faster than others, including several indoor ones. The commentators often refer to it and the athletes know too; actively seeking their record attempts at those that give greater energy return.
We also have Mondo claiming on a regular basis that the latest championship track is their 'fastest one ever.' This claim was made in 2019, 2020 (Olympics in Tokyo - 1% faster than previous - backed up by 400H WRs) and the 2021 Worlds in Eugene.
If you put these guys in 90's technology, you can add about a second to their times.
In my eyes Gray is still the fastest American 2 lap runner.
The superspike effect in the men’s 800 is arguable at best. The track effect sure might account for a little bit especially over 80s tracks. It also misses that Wanyonyi race in a perfectly standard track in Nairobi. The event being cyclical seems the most obvious factor. Look at how far the 400 has fallen on these same tracks. You don’t have to go back far to when nobody ran fast in the 800. This year you’ve had one historic race with intent from the alpha in the event. You need someone to go with the pace in the 800.
Yeah I know the angle you're looking at it from (in race) and I completely agree. In fact I would even argue that in a race as short as the 800m that the most efficient spike one could wear is something like the old Victory Pro/Jasari. You don't minimal to no cushioning for the 800m - get as much force as you can into the (already elastically resilient) track.
However, I do actually think "super spikes" have had a pretty big impact on the 800m but it's not in racing it's in training. 800 guys typically love getting in spikes and running fast in training (for obvious reasons) and I think you had to be really careful to find the balance between how much you do in spikes and how much pounding you put on the legs - and especially close to races when typically guys are wearing spikes a lot. So I think super spikes have really allowed the 8 guys to run just as fast as they used to in sharpening/prep work but without exposing their lower limbs in particular to the cumulative wear and fatigue they had done in the past. Therefore guys are showing up physically fresher - even if they don't consciously feel it and able to run parts of the race like the final 200m faster than in the past.
It's a hard one to quantify but I believe this where the 800m guys do see the most benefit from the latest product innovation in the sport.
Small sample size to the above but is this the healthiest an 800m cohort has ever been? Outside of the very long-term injuries (Brazier, Korir), it is an incredibly healthy group right now. The only top-20 guy I think missing is Moula and you’ve heard little about winter injuries either outside of a chronically injured guy like Burgin. Contrast with the 1500 which had injuries to previously durable guys like Gourley, Wightman, Hoare, Habz, Tim Cheruiyot, Jakob, Stonier, Laros.