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newaccountsinceyourwebsitesucks wrote:
Steve The Addict OFFICIAL -----^^^^^ wrote:
Nigel Amos was on PED when he medaled in Olympics in 2012 but wasn't caught until 2023 and banned. He is 30 years old now. Shows you they have work to do on the testing front.
I disagree. I think he was an age cheat in 2012 but I don't think he was doping.
I think he started doping around 2022 when he suddenly stopped tightening up at the end of races. Go back and watch some of his races right before he was banned. I remember watching it at the time and thinking how great it was that he had stopped straining in the last 100 like that, which was basically his trademark at that point.
My guess: Amos realized his career was on the downturn. Desperate to maintain any of the momentum he still had and hang on for another Olympic cycle, he started doping, and got caught as a result.
Same as Kiprop in 2008 right?
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Burritos.
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CheckIT wrote:
what's it all about? wrote:
I know that it's more a case of the 800m standards being unfathomably bad for a number of years, but why have the times suddenly improved so markedly? And not just at the top end. There are already more sub 1:45 guys this year than in the entire previous seasons.
Are guys just forcing each other to up their game? The super shoes suddenly working for the 800m? Or something more sinister?
TBH, it reminds me of 83/84 when HGH came out and suddenly so many guys (particularly American based) were running 1:43.
The reality is the 2024 men's top 3 in the 800m was almost identical to 1992
Jonny Gray 1:42.80, Mark Everett 1:43.67, Tony Parrilla 1:43.97
Bryce Hoppel 1:42.66, Hobbs Kessler 1:43.64, Brandon Miller 1:43.97
DATA!!
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CheckIT wrote:
The reality is the 2024 men's top 3 in the 800m was almost identical to 1992
Jonny Gray 1:42.80, Mark Everett 1:43.67, Tony Parrilla 1:43.97
Bryce Hoppel 1:42.66, Hobbs Kessler 1:43.64, Brandon Miller 1:43.97
This has always been an interesting aspect of the 800, that historic times seem to age much better than other events. I think of how long it took for Peter Snell's 800 record to fall, despite a strong NZ middle distance presence after Snell. Same thing with Ralph Doubell's Aussie record. Even the times of Wolhuter and Ryun stack up really well 50+ years later amongst the Americans. And don't even get me started on Coe's 1:41 from 1981, only 3 men faster than him in 40 years. The 800 really seems to be an event that weirdly resists the kind of blanket improvements we see in longer distances with things like improved surfaces and spikes. The fact that it took someone until this year running with super spikes on a mondo surface to beat Snell's time run on grass in leather shoes with nails sticking out, speaks to something very unique about the 800 that I have never seen a robust explanation for.
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Bob Sack wrote:
newaccountsinceyourwebsitesucks wrote:
I disagree. I think he was an age cheat in 2012 but I don't think he was doping.
I think he started doping around 2022 when he suddenly stopped tightening up at the end of races. Go back and watch some of his races right before he was banned. I remember watching it at the time and thinking how great it was that he had stopped straining in the last 100 like that, which was basically his trademark at that point.
My guess: Amos realized his career was on the downturn. Desperate to maintain any of the momentum he still had and hang on for another Olympic cycle, he started doping, and got caught as a result.
I agree with this. That's what most people don't understand about doping. No one "wants" to dope, and most really talented athletes compete cleanly.......until something goes wrong. Either an athlete gets injured and starts taking PEDs to help them recover (and then some stay on them, some don't) or they hit a training plateau as they are approaching their mid-to-late 20s and get desperate. Amos' wasn't that hard to figure out. He dealt with a lot of injuries after 2012, and he was with a sponsor/training group that wasn't hesitant to introduce him to PEDs to help him get back on track.
Connections to known dopers or late career massive, unexplained improvement are typically what you want to look for in identifying dopers.
Yeah, it had nothing to do with improved testing in Africa. And nothing fishy about Amos improving 10 seconds at 18 and never running as fast again.
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It hasn't really. There're just more fast races (or less tactical races) now.
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what's it all about? wrote:
I know that it's more a case of the 800m standards being unfathomably bad for a number of years, but why have the times suddenly improved so markedly? And not just at the top end. There are already more sub 1:45 guys this year than in the entire previous seasons.
Are guys just forcing each other to up their game? The super shoes suddenly working for the 800m? Or something more sinister?
TBH, it reminds me of 83/84 when HGH came out and suddenly so many guys (particularly American based) were running 1:43.
Somatropin--recombinant human growth hormone (r-hGH)--was introduced in 1985.
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The 1500 has become so deep that athletes aren't moving up from the 800 and are just learning the art of running a fast 8 . 3 years ago there was about 80 guys at or around that 1.45 or better . Work harder and train smarter for 1-3 years and boom 1.45. 5 becomes 1.44 flat etc .
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Bob Sack wrote:
Agreed. This is actually back to being a relatively "normal" year for the 800. It really just sucked post-Rudisha.
1:41 and 4+ 1:42 is not normal...
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The Nike Dragonfly's, supposedly called "super shoes", feel like any ordinary pair of distance spikes. They don't help that much, if at all, feel like any other pair of spikes. Try on a pair of Nike Alphafly 3's and run in them on the roads or track...now THOSE should be banned.
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Talent and performances just seem to randomly ebb and flow. You can't expect people to be running the same times every year, and mathematical means and ranges will form.
I guess a more practical reason is that it's an Olympic year, which is when people are trying to run their best. In turn, the year after the Olympics is when performances begin to drop again.10 -
Seb Coe and Johnny Gray would like a word with you.
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Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
1) Natural performance cycles of events (not every event globally is consistently strong season to season). The 800m had a dip post Rudisha and is now cycling back
2) This lifts the level of everyone starting at the top, right through to NCAA and even school level.
3) The understanding of how to execute races and train more optimally for the event has taken a radical positive shift in the last seasons. Best case in point Hobbs Kesslers masterclass on how to maximize potential in the event, especially evident in that trials semi-final
Yeah if it was as simple as spikes or better time trials the NCAA would be teeming with 1:44-low guys in the same manner the 1500 and up has completely changed where 3:34-5 is the new 3:36-7.
A lot of the young talent in the event has panned out (Sedjati, Wanyonyi, Kidali, Miller, Masalela, Pattison, Kessler) and we’re seeing potential career years from a bunch of guys who are mid-prime (Kinyamal, Hoppel, Arop, Tual).61 -
DevonDixonFan wrote:
Bob Sack wrote:
Agreed. This is actually back to being a relatively "normal" year for the 800. It really just sucked post-Rudisha.
1:41 and 4+ 1:42 is not normal...
2012 Olympic final, and yes I just went there. Let the 800m renaissance begin.
This post was edited 28 seconds after it was posted.20 -
In the 2009-2013 seasons (five years) only 5 guys not named David Rudisha ran sub 1:43.00 outside of the London Olympics. Since the start of the 2021 season 6 guys have run sub 1:43.00. So there's actually more sub 1:43's recently than during Rudisha's reign. More could be added if the olympic final is fast this summer.
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Shoe heel "stack", creatine monohydrate, caffeine, and TUEs
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For East-Africans, there might be some benefit in running the 800m at 6000’ of altitude.
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It's such a great distance to watch I'm glad it's "back".
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