Immediately after watching the women's 5000 final, all of my non-track friends disappeared for a few minutes for "private time".
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I don't know why they don't put more information on the screen. Sometimes they show 400m splits, sometimes they don't. All other sports: NFL, NHL, NBA, Nascar, Indy 500, Kentucky Derby, etc have stats littered all over the screen. Why do the go so minimalist during track races?
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sp2 wrote:
Mph on the screen is so freaking stupid it's just amazing. I'd love to give an IQ test to the a**hole who decided that was a good idea. (He's probably a Harvard MBA.)
Drives me nuts, too, but I understand that it makes more sense for the general population, and any relevant speed data at this point is good data for me.
FYI, just take 894.77 and divide that by the speed in mph to get the seconds per 400m pace.
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nystaterunner13 wrote:
anytime I have watched the trials or olympic track with non track fans the first thing they talk about is the insane female bodies (great legs, butt, etc)
like its all thats talked about. even my wife mentions the same thing ("damn, look at that girl!")
maybe its just my crowd?
A couple of my friends who don't follow running at all really commented on Valby and Hall but more so on their looks than anything else. But they were all male so I assume females would make different comments
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Peach Pit wrote:
McRunnin wrote:
Great stuff. I agree that knowing the athletes’ back stories is huge for the casual viewer. So is some basic education on the events. While I was watching the NCAA championships a few weeks ago with a non-fan, I got asked the following question when the triple jump started: “Why do they do that?”
lol yeah someone said the same thing about the steeplechase water pits/barriers. I actually don't know, I've always assumed it's a relic of when people raced against horses.
It's acrually an interesting story. In olden England, they'd. racefrom church to church (steeple to steeple) and go over obstacles like a very tough XC course - streams, low walls, etc. This would be on horseback and then it was made more modern in the mid 1800's
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track could be very popular if the athletes were able to compete more. and im not sure most can compete enough to hold the interest of the public.
people like dominant runners who they are familiar. and they like them to compete often enough that you remember them. wanting to see who can run faster than somebody for a given distance is in our DNA, the same way that fighting is.
I don't know how to market it and put it together, but I think it's possible with the right amount of money and the perfect idea.
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ugh..... wrote:
If you go to commercial during a race, you're inherently telling your audience that this race isn't important. When you don't tell anyone how many laps the race is or what lap a race is on or how fast the last lap was or if this heat is going faster than the last one how do you expect anyone to know what is going on or care.
I'd rather watch the worst wnba teams than the 2400 to 6000 part of a 10000. I found watching xc boring too but nowhere near as boring because they're on an actual course, not 25 laps. And this is coming from someone who would run xc 10k but hated it.
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McRunnin wrote:
Great stuff. I agree that knowing the athletes’ back stories is huge for the casual viewer. So is some basic education on the events. While I was watching the NCAA championships a few weeks ago with a non-fan, I got asked the following question when the triple jump started: “Why do they do that?”
NCAA indoor is better for this because everyone knows how far 1 mile and 5000 are
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smrtalec33 wrote:
NBC has gone picture-in-picture for just about all commercials (i think there was one during 5000m heats where they didn’t), but Peacock has not done any of that - they’ve gone to regular commercials or a black screen.
The picture-in-picture was decent, but the main problem was that they did it immediately after a commercial break. So NBC goes to full commercial for 4 minutes, then comes back and the 2nd heat of the Steeple starts, and then they go 400 meters and break to screen-in-screen commercial for the middle 2k of the race. People made moves, people fell, etc. Meanwhile, they are paying Coburn to be in there commentating and the whole time it is a silent small screen with no dialogue b/c we have to see a 456th version of the TriFegryOptin commercial for skin rashes or IBS or bulging eyeballs or whatever else is ailing people.
Like, I understand the need for commercials, but you JUST CAME BACK from commercials. Is 8 or 9 minutes really too long of a race?
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Can we stop with the tight shots of the race winner who has dropped everyone by 10 seconds instead of the close battle for the final spots?
I've said this before, but I think some auto racing style graphics would be beneficial. Similar to what they do in F1 - show each competitor's name, and cycle between last lap split, gap to leader, heart rate (if available) and maybe even something fun like the model of shoe they're wearing. NBC does some of this stuff on their Indycar broadcasts, I don't know why they haven't thought to do it for track as well.
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Peach Pit wrote:
Watched the trials tonight with like 20 people who aren’t track fans (and a couple that are casual fans) to cheer for Ethan Strand in the 1500, and then we kept watching. Age range from 7 to 65+. Some things that came up that I think are worth noting for how the average person interacts with it:
The 1500 was great. Strand ended up last but everyone was still excited by the race, even not knowing how fast 3:30 is, just by how dominant that performance was. Helps a lot to have someone to root for, even when you know literally nothing about the race (literally no one knows how far 1500m is), and even when that person comes last.
They were shocked to see a commercial break during the steeple heats. Like people were shouting at the TV when it started. I don’t watch any other sports so I’m just used to missing half of a race for commercials, but it made me realize why people get so upset about it here. Someone said something like “wow they must really need money” lmao
They all liked the steeple. Even though it was just the heats, the water jumps and the hurdles just make it an entertaining race. I imagine if they’d seen Snoop Dogg reacting to it for the first time too (especially if we got his reaction to Bor’s fall), they would have loved it.
When the 5k started we were all rooting for Valby (I was rooting for Tuohy ofc). There was even more (very loud) dismay at the commercial break. People calling for a little screen in the corner so we could still see the race, saying we should complain to Peacock for it, etc. Kinda surprised me that no one had an issue with watching a 15 minute race in its entirety, but they all really enjoyed it.
All were sad to see Valby come 4th, but the finish between Cranny and St Pierre was great, and as much as everyone here jokes about the focus on her being a mom, everyone was rooting for St Pierre because of it (especially once they saw her kid that mf was adorable). From now on I am pro-NBC pushing the mother angle
In the 800 everyone was gutted to see Mu fall, and I think almost no one knew she was the reigning Olympic champ. You just hate to see it. Thats the stakes of the trials though.
No notes on the 400 or 800 heptathalon heats because we didn’t watch them. I wanted to watch the 1500 (because how could you not) and someone else wanted to watch the 5k (for Valby). Once people were watching there was no issue keeping them interested except for commercial breaks. I was surprised when everyone kept watching the steeple heats after the 1500 ended because normally even I would skip them lol.
I’ve heard people say it, but this was the proof to me that the issue of low viewership isn’t inherent to the sport of track itself, it’s with how it’s presented.
People asked every event (finals or not) how many people qualified, so that info being on screen might be worthwhile. We were all talking so no one could hear the broadcast. I think it’s worth noting that even if the broadcasters say how many people qualify, if there’s a loud room, it doesn’t particularly matter.
The little arrows with Hocker and Nuguse’s names were nice; That should definitely be expanded. Also pace should be seconds per lap pace, not mph.
At the end, someone mentioned that they should show more about the athletes backstories so we know who to root for. Clearly everyone liked St Pierre because she’s a mother. Not sure what else there is, but I do think they’re right.
It really is in the presentation. I was watching Diamond League meets with a nonsport following woman last year.
She loved the British announcers and the meets.
This year she's asking me when the coverage starts and who's running what.
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Big Problem wrote:
The picture-in-picture was decent, but the main problem was that they did it immediately after a commercial break. So NBC goes to full commercial for 4 minutes, then comes back and the 2nd heat of the Steeple starts, and then they go 400 meters and break to screen-in-screen commercial for the middle 2k of the race. People made moves, people fell, etc. Meanwhile, they are paying Coburn to be in there commentating and the whole time it is a silent small screen with no dialogue b/c we have to see a 456th version of the TriFegryOptin commercial for skin rashes or IBS or bulging eyeballs or whatever else is ailing people.
Like, I understand the need for commercials, but you JUST CAME BACK from commercials. Is 8 or 9 minutes really too long of a race?
The only trouble is that we viewers have pretty much zero leverage here. I doubt there are tons of people who would watch if only the commercials didn't interrupt the race broadcast (whether completely or picture-in-picture). The hardcore fans will watch no matter what, and the casual fans will rarely watch no matter what.
Also, just want to echo the others and say this was a great post, OP. Wish we could get your thoughts to the people who make the decisions and that they would give a crap about it.
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runn wrote:
Peach Pit wrote:
Watched the trials tonight with like 20 people who aren’t track fans (and a couple that are casual fans) to cheer for Ethan Strand in the 1500, and then we kept watching. Age range from 7 to 65+. Some things that came up that I think are worth noting for how the average person interacts with it:
The 1500 was great. Strand ended up last but everyone was still excited by the race, even not knowing how fast 3:30 is, just by how dominant that performance was. Helps a lot to have someone to root for, even when you know literally nothing about the race (literally no one knows how far 1500m is), and even when that person comes last.
They were shocked to see a commercial break during the steeple heats. Like people were shouting at the TV when it started. I don’t watch any other sports so I’m just used to missing half of a race for commercials, but it made me realize why people get so upset about it here. Someone said something like “wow they must really need money” lmao
They all liked the steeple. Even though it was just the heats, the water jumps and the hurdles just make it an entertaining race. I imagine if they’d seen Snoop Dogg reacting to it for the first time too (especially if we got his reaction to Bor’s fall), they would have loved it.
When the 5k started we were all rooting for Valby (I was rooting for Tuohy ofc). There was even more (very loud) dismay at the commercial break. People calling for a little screen in the corner so we could still see the race, saying we should complain to Peacock for it, etc. Kinda surprised me that no one had an issue with watching a 15 minute race in its entirety, but they all really enjoyed it.
All were sad to see Valby come 4th, but the finish between Cranny and St Pierre was great, and as much as everyone here jokes about the focus on her being a mom, everyone was rooting for St Pierre because of it (especially once they saw her kid that mf was adorable). From now on I am pro-NBC pushing the mother angle
In the 800 everyone was gutted to see Mu fall, and I think almost no one knew she was the reigning Olympic champ. You just hate to see it. Thats the stakes of the trials though.
No notes on the 400 or 800 heptathalon heats because we didn’t watch them. I wanted to watch the 1500 (because how could you not) and someone else wanted to watch the 5k (for Valby). Once people were watching there was no issue keeping them interested except for commercial breaks. I was surprised when everyone kept watching the steeple heats after the 1500 ended because normally even I would skip them lol.
I’ve heard people say it, but this was the proof to me that the issue of low viewership isn’t inherent to the sport of track itself, it’s with how it’s presented.
People asked every event (finals or not) how many people qualified, so that info being on screen might be worthwhile. We were all talking so no one could hear the broadcast. I think it’s worth noting that even if the broadcasters say how many people qualify, if there’s a loud room, it doesn’t particularly matter.
The little arrows with Hocker and Nuguse’s names were nice; That should definitely be expanded. Also pace should be seconds per lap pace, not mph.
At the end, someone mentioned that they should show more about the athletes backstories so we know who to root for. Clearly everyone liked St Pierre because she’s a mother. Not sure what else there is, but I do think they’re right.
It really is in the presentation. I was watching Diamond League meets with a nonsport following woman last year.
She loved the British announcers and the meets.
This year she's asking me when the coverage starts and who's running what.
I love the way the British announcers can't pronounce a non-British name to save their lives. Even a Javier stumps them, to say nothing of Mboma.
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IrishBaron wrote:
Big Problem wrote:
The picture-in-picture was decent, but the main problem was that they did it immediately after a commercial break. So NBC goes to full commercial for 4 minutes, then comes back and the 2nd heat of the Steeple starts, and then they go 400 meters and break to screen-in-screen commercial for the middle 2k of the race. People made moves, people fell, etc. Meanwhile, they are paying Coburn to be in there commentating and the whole time it is a silent small screen with no dialogue b/c we have to see a 456th version of the TriFegryOptin commercial for skin rashes or IBS or bulging eyeballs or whatever else is ailing people.
Like, I understand the need for commercials, but you JUST CAME BACK from commercials. Is 8 or 9 minutes really too long of a race?
The only trouble is that we viewers have pretty much zero leverage here. I doubt there are tons of people who would watch if only the commercials didn't interrupt the race broadcast (whether completely or picture-in-picture). The hardcore fans will watch no matter what, and the casual fans will rarely watch no matter what.
Also, just want to echo the others and say this was a great post, OP. Wish we could get your thoughts to the people who make the decisions and that they would give a crap about it.
I don't really believe this at all. Casual viewers will tune in if you give them a reason to. I mean people watch Ninja Warrior, America's Got Talent, the ten millionth season of the Voice or some bachelorette garbage. The way they produce the track events today just don't give casual fans any chance to understand what's happening. They bounce around events, go to commercial mid race, barely provide a schedule, don't tell anyone what the rules are, how many laps there are, who qualifies, what happened on that last lap etc. How could a casual fan get into it at all with no clue what's happening. They've been broadcasting track the exact same way for thirty years. Go re-watch an NFL or NBA game from 1994, could you imagine an NFL game broadcast today without the yellow line, the big score bugs telling you down and distance, clock, play clock, timeouts left. With Pat Summerall barely saying anything in his play by play, limited replays and camera angles, etc.
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Several years ago, Lady Gaga arrived at an event carried in a giant egg. that would be great tv if one of the stars arrived to a track meet like that. not sure who might do it, maybe Noah Lyles?
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Peach Pit wrote:
Runnrgrl994 wrote:
I agree would love to see a lap counter on the screen with splits like a football score at the bottom. I was a distance runner but even for me it's hard to follow what lap they are on especially when 1/3 of the race is a commercial. Kept trying to figure out when they were actually kicking vs speeding up tempo. Plus it seems the commentators don't know when there is a commercial and they just keep talking so we miss whatever they say when the race cuts off.
Absolutely, if you look away for a few seconds you can completely lose where they are in the race. Idk if they still do it but in some older L&L videos they had a lap counter on screen and it was a little track that showed where they were on it and it had a lap counter in the middle. It'd be great to see that in real time since I know the technology exists for it and it can't be that hard to implement.
Especially since they're already tracking athlete's positions in real time (since they have the speeds on screen), they could have little dots for where the athletes are and maybe even a pace line for the Olympic standard or something. It would be really nice for visually gauging where the athletes are in relation to each other since camera angles can be SUPER deceiving. Wouldn't be too useful in the sprints, but 800 and up it'd be really nice. In the 5k it would have been really nice to see Valby right on the standard. In the 1500 it would've been cool to see how they went from way behind standard pace to blowing right by it.
Watching Euro Championships recently - the on-screen clock also tracked meters - so you could tell exactly where the race was at - particularly helpful for races like 5k and steeple!
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I was watching the trials with my dad who is in his '60s and was a D1 runner back in the day, but doesn't pay much attention except for The Olympics and the world championships.
He is thoroughly unimpressed with Kara Goucher, not knowing much about her professional career, but recalling something about Alberto Salazar, who is a couple years younger than him. His criticism is that she is uninsightful, makes comments that are incredibly obvious, and seems to just go off of pre-prepared cliches, and doesn't give a very good running commentary on the race.
He's so unimpressed with Ato Bolden, with a similar criticism for NBC. They always have their pics that they talk up a lot, and don't mention other people in the race. He also seemed pretty annoyed that Ato about what he would like to see, who he is betting on, and seemingly telling the viewership who they should care about, even if the athlete in question doesn't end up performing well.
As far as peacock goes, he thinks it's laughably bad. I'm paying for the peacock version with no commercials, but for some reason I keep on getting them. Shifting away from races to a small corner of the screen when they are at crucial points in races to show field events.
As far as NBC goes, he has had the same complaint over the past few years, which is that they saturate programming with A few chosen stars, such as lyles and Shacarri. He thought the segment with Mu and the throne was literally stupid and inappropriate... Which, to be fair, Athing seemed to think the same thing at the time. When he was watching it, he said " now what's going to happen if she doesn't do as well as expected." Lo and behold... I explained how Athing hasn't raced this season, and no one is sure how well she actually will end up doing at the trials. He said based on that, it's just impolite to the other athletes at the trials to give her so much coverage.
He did like the idea of Snoop Dogg being around, because he thinks that anything that will bring more views to track is a good thing.
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Almost Home wrote:
Peach Pit wrote:
Absolutely, if you look away for a few seconds you can completely lose where they are in the race. Idk if they still do it but in some older L&L videos they had a lap counter on screen and it was a little track that showed where they were on it and it had a lap counter in the middle. It'd be great to see that in real time since I know the technology exists for it and it can't be that hard to implement.
Especially since they're already tracking athlete's positions in real time (since they have the speeds on screen), they could have little dots for where the athletes are and maybe even a pace line for the Olympic standard or something. It would be really nice for visually gauging where the athletes are in relation to each other since camera angles can be SUPER deceiving. Wouldn't be too useful in the sprints, but 800 and up it'd be really nice. In the 5k it would have been really nice to see Valby right on the standard. In the 1500 it would've been cool to see how they went from way behind standard pace to blowing right by it.
Watching Euro Championships recently - the on-screen clock also tracked meters - so you could tell exactly where the race was at - particularly helpful for races like 5k and steeple!
a graphic with current projected finishing time would be great as well.
most of the time we can't even get the play by play or color person to give that info a couple times.
i think the issue is that the sport doesn't make money, so they don't put money into it. and the number of people who understand the sport enough to create those graphics and/or feed that info to the announcers is minimal.
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I said this in another post, but we really need to get Centro on the broadcast in Kara Goucher's role. He has the personality for it and gold medal credibility.
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McRunnin wrote:
Peach Pit wrote:
ya thats just your crowd. If it'd been with my (21 yo) friends maybe that would've come up, but with my family the closest was "Wow looking at [St Pierre's] abs you'd never know she had a baby".
It might be more common than you think. I was watching last night with my gay male partner, and we both commented on the incredible shape and beauty of Anna Hall.
it would be terrible for him if he were your partner and not gay.
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