sub 29 10k within 2.5 years

I have done 10x1k starting at 3:20 and then last 5 reps at 3:05, with only 60s rest. (I don't remember the HR but this is where I have seen good improvements, where my HR drops much faster during the rests compared to before)

so short answer nope can't do that workout BUT.....
maybe not in 6months but in 12 ? would be disappointed if I still can't (not just for the sake of doing the workout) do 3:00 km reps in a controlled manner

Well a decent base of 8-12 weeks to get to sub 30 could be 10-15k @ 300 , 20 x 400 @ 70 sec, and either an easy long run or a 4 mile tempo run. The key is the hr recovery between reps. If it isn’t dropping then you may not be physiologically fit enough to run 10k under 30 minutes.

Just tell me how fast you can move / sprint over 60m,100m,200m and 400m and I will tell you if your goal is possible or not.Some years ago I coached an Irish master runner ( then age 43) from 16:30 down to 15:37 at 5000m in just two months(!!) with 5 sessions training per week. If you have the necessary talent needed your goal sub 29 min is still possible after age 40 . 🇸🇪🧙🏼‍♂️🇸🇪Coach J.S

Go look up the name John Campbell from New Zealand. He accomplished what you are talking about as a masters runner and was very competitive on the road scene back in his day. But, he always had talent from youth, he was in and out of the sport for various reasons over the decades, and it took some monster training to get to sub-29:00, quite a bit more than you’re talking about. So, it’s probably unlikely, but, at the same time, you’ll never know your ability to adapt to progressively larger loads of training, and never say never.

The Africans could make most masters look feeble at almost any age group.

I had this goal in college and I only got down to 29:47.

That being said, I had already run 32:05 for 10km at the age of 18 in hs.

Progression was like:

31:44 as a frosh under Rojo.

(took a year off from track as a Soph but ran 14:48 or so for 5km unattached).

30:30s at a junior...

and then

29:49 as a senior

and then

29:47 as a super senior.

Granted this was before super shoes/super spikes but I was training with a lot of 100mpw weeks and I got my 5km under 14:30. I wasn't super talented but I was driven. I also never got to go race a 10km in CA at any of the "big fast meets". Some of my more talented teammates (also training under Rojo) did get into the low 29s though. They also were already low 14s for 5km.

That being said (imo) the chasm between a 31-32min 10km runners and a 29:00 10km runner is quite vast.

Focus on getting your 5km down into the low 14s (I never could!) or 14:00 first to even see if you even have a shot. Obviously if you're not running under 14:30 by a considerable margin you have no chance for a sub 29:00.

Come to think of it, I’m not sure Campbell ever got below 29:00. But he did run 13:55 on the roads as well as 2:11 at the Boston Marathon.

This guy is lying, OP. Avoid him like the plague.

to Swedish Coach: I have never run a race below 10k actually so have no idea about a 60 100 or 200 time. when I do 200s I can't go below 32s and 400s I think the best I have done was 67s during a 10x or 15x session.

to S. Canaday: that progression actually makes me hopeful at least to have a shot at breaking 30. 31'44 to 30'30 to 29:49. Major difference is of course the age but with the new shoes ?

to Sub 9 guy impressive indeed for a masters.

I had a quick look and many >40 master records in diff countries seem to be around sub 29 and sub14 for 5k/5000m respectively. USA (except EAfrican countries of course) an outlier with Bernard Lagat

I see you already responded to sirpoc and he replied to this thread. In my opinion you probably look to what he is doing. Likely, you haven't yet reached your aerobic capacity. He is average talent I believe and has squeezed every last drop almost out of what he has. Then you ice the cake. But I believe he is doing the smartest think you can possibly do if you willing to commit to 7 days a week. Maybe even contact him on Strava. I think you seem genuine but need some discipline and maybe guidance and confidence to stick to a plan. Seems in a short space of time you have come progress a lot and have talent. I said on other thread and someone else mentioned it here, sirpoc I believe can win the masters UK 5k road champion or maybe at least medal . To me this shows anyone can come from nowhere running and achieve anything. But you have to be super smart about what and how to train. The Norwegian lower mileage I think personal is the absolute number 1 place to start my friend.

Not to make this a Norwegian singles circle jerk , but it's hard not to agree with this. When you look at that thread, it's laid out so well and almost perfect for masters. If you look at the time sirpoc84 has ground it out to get to where he is (faster than most masters can dream of even my letsrun standards) and still progressing, it's hard not to say that you should dive into that and see if the grind works for you, especially when gou have such a long distance to your goal, which makes it much more realistic. There's a reason it's probably one of the best threads in LRC we've seen for a good decade or so and it's all there, easy to use, free to use and likely will at least improve you and kick you on from where you are -then who knows?

Sure , it incorporates a lot of stuff we have seen before but it's packaged together so neatly, with the big kicker that we are a decent way into lots of other people trying it who 1. Are all improving at well past what they thought were their best and 2. People don't seem to be breaking down as much as normal.

Keep us updated anyway. I do love a "big goal" thread and hopefully this one isn't a number of the many number of car crash ones we have had.

Your 10k time should be faster if you can run 10 x 1k with the last 5 at 3:05.

Okey, sorry to tell you it's impossible to reach a sub 29 10k with that relatively slow basic sprint speed . Just imagine , to run a sub 29 you need a speed of 25 x 400m without a break in 70 sec per lap, and you have top speed 67 sec 400m. I would advice you to just train as smart and effective as possible and just take it day by day and enjoy your running and see what it leads to when it comes to realistical results.Good luck! 🇸🇪🧙🏼‍♂️🇸🇪

The Magic Wizard

Yes I think I could go closer to 32 on current fitness. However won't be able to prove it until the next race will be probably at the tail end of summer

I have read a few pages of the singles on lower mileage thread with attention. I think my training will end up very close in spirit to what they are doing but I need much more variety to stay entertained. I like to run in the hills / mountains, do fartleks and vary the workouts on the track. I acknowledge it maybe a touch less efficient, less mathematical as an approach and if I hit a plateau or regress I will reconsider. (I also can't run everyday so need to pack more mileage into less days per week)

You only need to train 40-80 min per day 5-6 days per week to reach your best possible times. 🇸🇪🧙🏼‍♂️🇸🇪Coach J.S

I would also add stick to the sirpoc stuff in the Norwegian on lesser mileage thread to OP. Avoid the temptation to change much. Yes, it's very very boring. But stick it out for a year or so and see how far you can stretch your aerobic capacity first. Honestly, the guys who have changed too much have had less success. The way sirpoc still runs it now is probably the absolute best way for a master.

Also, please don't do anything the conman JS says. If it's a choice between the free information that is proven to work or the make belief clients coach js makes up, please get yourself to the Norwegian thread + the amazing Strava group . Good luck!

Don't listen to this stalker of JS. JS is a great proven coach and an expert on low mileage effective training.Follow his experienced advice.

Dude, I'm not quite giving up on you. It's not impossible.

But I'd say if you did do it it would take closer to 5 years to achieve.

You need to aim for closer benchmarks: 15:30, 15:00, 14:30. Train as a 5k for the next 2 years and see how low you go.

You need to build your speed generally. Talking about specific sessions is a waste of time you are so far away at the moment.

What I would say in your favour you have made big jumps thus far so roll the dice and see where you go.

Good luck!

Luckily you have not beat down your body enough to destroy your running economy which is common for those starting running seriously at a young age. Top Vo2 max is not neccessary for 10k. Based on low milage up until now I believe it is possible if you got the genes and can do the training