........she free from scheduling, tapering for, recovering from, and worrying about training or peaking for - even traveling to and attending - any national federation events. She has it a lot easier than those she's competing against for international medals.
She earned her position!
'Earned' it by being great? But you know what Shorter, Rodgers, Benoit, and Salazar had to do long ago or Nuguse and St. Pierre currently? Each was/is among the best in the world but still had to go through national qualifying events to then attend the big internatiinal events. Being great alone didn't 'earn' an entry in the US and many countries. If so, Rupp would be on the team for Paris. Someone who actually medalled in the Trials would get bumped if Rupp's resume alone satisfied qualifying criteria like it does for Hassan.
Maybe you (unearned) should read yourselves through her life span a bit, then take some notice on Dutch social and sports culture tendencies and the media there for athletic sports and how that exactly works for women, especially in those days. Tiny country, hardly women athletes, no interest of major brands or media, say no money for women athletes. Stuff like that.
Compare to other countries there's hardly attention, hardly money for women athletes. No athletics culture at all.
After 15 years of Sifan in The Netherlands, not born Dutch, being extremely different, a very young female athlete, you might figure out as well how European athletics work for these women, related to Dutch women athletics in that same period.
Only outstanding consistent performance and absolute hard work brought her on a certain podium in Europe up till 2019. Not even talking about a world stage.
She deserves and earned her position hard, by her selves, in what she did, who she is, her perseverance, even more perseverance, strength, standing tall, talent etc. and that as not native citizen.
Other countries; would've put her directly on a pedestal, would've seen the talent and gold she brings, give her a position the moment she would've shown these talents (like Ethiopia and Kenya does with their talented).
Nike would've licked her heals from age of 20, she would've had Lyles status from her 18th in America.
Women athletics changed considerably in The Netherlands and you might say recently in Europe, since Sifan.
Brands started finally to see European athletes, the women athletes came later.
Sifan would've deserved way more support from the beginning up till now, actually.
Can't even imagine how much easier in certain aspects it would've been if she'd started in a bigger country like Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, Canada or America.
This post was edited 12 minutes after it was posted.
The post right above this is a non sequitor to the casual 'debate' that was going back and forth. Although her life may or may not have been incredibly hard, if she were in a large country where sports are popular, she'd have to run the national events to get into the international events. That's true whether she's originally from US, for example, or showed up sometime after birth. The discussion among a few posters was about the fact that she gets a berth on the national team without having to get it the same way US athletes and those from a bunch of first-world countries regardless if how good they are. Was a gold spoon handed to her on a silver platter? Maybe not. But she makes teams without having to qualify via a selection meet run by a national federation.
The post right above this is a non sequitor to the casual 'debate' that was going back and forth. Although her life may or may not have been incredibly hard, if she were in a large country where sports are popular, she'd have to run the national events to get into the international events. That's true whether she's originally from US, for example, or showed up sometime after birth. The discussion among a few posters was about the fact that she gets a berth on the national team without having to get it the same way US athletes and those from a bunch of first-world countries regardless if how good they are. Was a gold spoon handed to her on a silver platter? Maybe not. But she makes teams without having to qualify via a selection meet run by a national federation.
Can you read? that long read was about a discussing if she earned it or not, the whole position she has.
But you're not really arguing against a point anybody's making. No poster has said, "She wouldn't be able to get a spot for any event if she had to try out. She wouldn't have been top-10 at Dutch XC if she had run it."
None of us are saying that. Nevertheless, she would have had to attend and compete at national championships if their federation had the policy that USATF has. Could she win every event she wants to run at the WA events? If she was representing the USA, she wouldn't win any without travelling to and running them - which she'd have to do. It adds a lot of races to the schedule.
USATF Champs is often held over just 4 days. I've actually bought the 4-day pass and watched every session. To win, or even get top-3 in, everything longer than 400 would require:
3- 800 races.
3 (often)-1500 races
1 (usually)- 5000
1- 10000
In 4 days. Absolutely no other racing would happen during the week prior or after. No lucrative appearance fees at European Invitationals would be realistic for a multi-week period if she were to avoid getting into a hole that requires months to recover from. She would need to stay fresh for the more competitive WA event she's qualifying for.
That's what her mid-summer looks like if she had to play by USATF rules. How many BTC athletes would have run WA Indoors or WA XC back when they had a big roster but peaked only for Outdoor Worlds and Games?
Would Shelby, Grant, and the whole "We don't race unless absolutely necassary" crowd have run WA XC a few years back when their team was going strong? If USATF had told Jerry he could take as many WA XC spots as he needed from those who ran USATF XC wouldn't they have taken the offer? I mean, wouldn't Grant and Shelby have won Nationals anyway? If the National qualifier is just a formality for the favorites, should they be allowed to skip it?
Even Wightman said the downside to doing WA Indoor was not the he had to add one more race to the schedule. It was actually 4 more. 2 rounds at UK, 2 more at WA. He literally said that. It would take up more than a month of the year's training and racing plan to train, taper, and peak for both meets. Then slack off for a while to recover from a hard month. That's why he said he might not go. And he didn't.
So, pointing out how much better she is than all the Dutch just makes a great rebuttal to an argument nobody's forwarding. It's not that she loses those races and can't get on the team. It's that she free from scheduling, tapering for, recovering from, and worrying about training or peaking for - even traveling to and attending - any national federation events. She has it a lot easier than those she's competing against for international medals.
Eh Wightman was just kinda looking to avoid a tough one at home, and also play it safe injury-wise. He ran 2 races in Australia, and did a ton of travel for the payday at Maurie Plant I’m sure. So yeah he’d do 2 more with World Indoors but far less travel and more spread out. I also don’t know if he even asked the powers-that-be if he could skip Trials (plausible) with no big names doing it. Would they hold a spot for Elson/Fogg over him? Maybe not.
I contend she has not. All you're saying is that her life has been hard and she has risen to the top. Perhaps true, but unrelated to the question of whether or not the Dutch federation is justly giving opportunities to her which are taken from whoever actually earned the same opportunity by high placing in national competition.
She has earned her success in life. She has NOT earned an entry into World Cross. That was given to her. You have a lot of admiratiin for her. So do most of us. This fact is unrelated to whether or not she deserves to bump the finishers of Dutch XC or Dutch outdoor champs out of an entry into World Cross or World Outdoor Track.
Eh Wightman was just kinda looking to avoid a tough one at home, and also play it safe injury-wise. He ran 2 races in Australia, and did a ton of travel for the payday at Maurie Plant I’m sure. So yeah he’d do 2 more with World Indoors but far less travel and more spread out. I also don’t know if he even asked the powers-that-be if he could skip Trials (plausible) with no big names doing it. Would they hold a spot for Elson/Fogg over him? Maybe not.
I agree. I don't think he was in top shape. As in, he didn't think he could medal. He was dodging. Or that's my guess anyway. But he said he would have to run 2 rounds each UK and World. He said deciding to do it would actually be adding 4 races to the schedule. Not just 1.
That's how it relates to this. Hassan doesnt have to run qualifying events. She just gets a lane wherever the Dutch federation has the authortlity to give one out. That having been said, I agree with you and don't think having to run UK Champs was why Jake ended his season.
She has NOT earned an entry into World Cross. That was given to her. You have a lot of admiratiin for her. So do most of us. This fact is unrelated to whether or not she deserves to bump the finishers of Dutch XC or Dutch outdoor champs out of an entry into World Cross or World Outdoor Track.
Tell me please who did Sifan bump out of entry, pretty sure nobody, beside that are you aware how many XC Sifan ran and won. Not lately, that is true. Wild cards, always great opportunities for tiny countries.
There are other stars who would run this - and various events like World Indoors - if their national federations had no qualifying criteria other than their agents saying they want to do it. How few Olympic and World events would she have run the last few years if she had to get top-3 at their nationals in every one?
Many of you will down-vote and say she is the greatest runner of all time. Be that as it may, nobody, regardless of resume, is going to represent USA at this without running USATF XC first. None are going to Paris in USA uniform without showing up at USATF's Trials. She IS great. She also has an easier path to international events because of the favoritism her federation shows her.
Who are these stars? I agree not having nationals is an advantage, but for World XC not so sure who’s missing (except by choice and not cuz of Trials).
want to start with the us? How about all our best pretty much.
want to start with the us? How about all our best pretty much.
Because they want to run either World Indoors or chase the 10K qualifier at The Ten. Look who is on our mixed 2K relay team, and see how far down (on the 1500m list) they go to get there.
There's really only one country (Kenya) where Sifan's advantage to just hop onto a team is that pronounced. Even Ethiopia is sending mostly B and C-teamers, and they would've accommodated her skipping Trials in all likelihood.
Who are these stars? I agree not having nationals is an advantage, but for World XC not so sure who’s missing (except by choice and not cuz of Trials).
want to start with the us? How about all our best pretty much.
Yeah. Plenty of anti-racing Americans are not going to US XC at gunpoint. If USATF just said you can go to Worlds anyway, some would definitely go. I wouldn't doubt that Klecker, Monson, and Ritz's group would. Maybe not this year or every year, but some would certainly consiider it. Fisher, BTC/exBTC maybe or maybe not. I would guess Simmons' ADP/WCAP gang would fiill the US spots if they were told they could have them all long enough before the event. NAZ would absolutely take that deal. "Hey, we need 12 runners for a World Championship race and were not going with the top 6 at the US race. You guys want to go?"
Not having to qualify would certainly bring some US stars out of the woodwork. We won't know who would be willing to take this deal since USATF isn't going to try to lure the top Americans to this event. They're giving all 6 or 7 places to the top finishers at US XC like they always do. That's how they select the team. They don't offer entry regardless of how many ARs (Monson, Fisher) you have without running the selection meet.
She has NOT earned an entry into World Cross. That was given to her. You have a lot of admiratiin for her. So do most of us. This fact is unrelated to whether or not she deserves to bump the finishers of Dutch XC or Dutch outdoor champs out of an entry into World Cross or World Outdoor Track.
Tell me please who did Sifan bump out of entry, pretty sure nobody, beside that are you aware how many XC Sifan ran and won. Not lately, that is true. Wild cards, always great opportunities for tiny countries.
That would be whoever got 6th at their National Championship. Someone we've never heard of. You're pretty sure that's nobody. Did they only have 4 finishers?
Typical silly letsrun post. Emma Coburn was so dominant that even though she had to qualify, it was very easy for her. Had Hassan been forced to qualify in the U.S., she would have jogged her way in at every distance from the 1500 to the 10k. It would have been an easy training session for her. Morons on this board questioning if her career is over after running 2:18. There isn't a single American who that wouldn't be a career day for.
Yeah. Plenty of anti-racing Americans are not going to US XC at gunpoint. If USATF just said you can go to Worlds anyway, some would definitely go. I wouldn't doubt that Klecker, Monson, and Ritz's group would. Maybe not this year or every year, but some would certainly consiider it. Fisher, BTC/exBTC maybe or maybe not. I would guess Simmons' ADP/WCAP gang would fiill the US spots if they were told they could have them all long enough before the event. NAZ would absolutely take that deal. "Hey, we need 12 runners for a World Championship race and were not going with the top 6 at the US race. You guys want to go?"
Not having to qualify would certainly bring some US stars out of the woodwork. We won't know who would be willing to take this deal since USATF isn't going to try to lure the top Americans to this event. They're giving all 6 or 7 places to the top finishers at US XC like they always do. That's how they select the team. They don't offer entry regardless of how many ARs (Monson, Fisher) you have without running the selection meet.
You are missing that The Ten is Sunday, so no they would not do a race 14 days after. In some years maybe, but again most will opt to chase qualifying times/fun races (Millrose) indoors over an XC qualifier. XC is just not something most are interested in.
Predictions ? Going against the Kenyan Women is brave no?
I love it!
Predicting something between 4th and 5th place. She finishes Tokyo on March 3rd. Assuming she took only one week off (which is conservative) she will race this 10k on just a couple weeks of 10k training - does she even have time to taper? I doubt they will taper because of how little time they have to train - so she'll basically run this race in the beginning of track training, tired, and fasting from Ramadan. If she can pull out 3rd place, it would be amazing tbh
Why does everyone assume she will be fasting that day? Islamic law allows you to take days off fasting in exceptional circumstances, as long as you make up for it later.
Why does everyone assume she will be fasting that day? Islamic law allows you to take days off fasting in exceptional circumstances, as long as you make up for it later.
Sifan is a strong believer, she'll fast up from now till the end of the Ramadan, 9 April. Could be she'll skips a day, but the effect of almost a month Ramadan will be there.
Typical silly letsrun post. Emma Coburn was so dominant that even though she had to qualify, it was very easy for her. Had Hassan been forced to qualify in the U.S., she would have jogged her way in at every distance from the 1500 to the 10k. It would have been an easy training session for her. Morons on this board questioning if her career is over after running 2:18. There isn't a single American who that wouldn't be a career day for.
I don't understand the argument here. Is it that SH (not Shelby H) doesn't have to go through a trials, as do Americans, and that is somehow unfair? That is the choice that the American federation requires under the guise that it is the most FAIR process, and few disagree with that, but on the distance side (other than sprints, jumps, etc.) it isn't the optimal way to prepare if peaking/tapering for trials events is required.
Frankly, I look at it as good on the Dutch for allowing her to do as she pleases as she has certainly earned the right (even or especially if it goes against the grain for Americans) as the most decorated Dutch female distance runner ever - whose range is unparalleled. There is no qualifying standard for XC, and the Dutch can damn well do as they please, without approval from Americans. Doing world XC soon after a sub-par (for her) Marathon may not be everyone's cup of tea, but she certainly isn't afraid of racing or at least challenging herself. If it goes poorly, then it can be argued that it wasn't the right thing to do - but it is her career after all.