Oregon 30/30 workout

What are your PRs?

I'm not going to say. I'm not interested in being doxxed or heckled. You can take my anecdote for what it is.

I ran at Gonzaga for Tyson, who uses the Oregon system heavily. 30/30s and 30/40s were both workouts we did pretty commonly. For 30/30s, I think the more reps you do, the more of a predictor it becomes. As a ~4:00 1500/14:40 5k guy, doing 8-10 30/30s were challenging but doable. I bet if I had tried to do 12-13 I could have done it but would not have been able to do much more. The short rest starts to stack up on you as you keep going. Tyson once told us "if you can do 20 of these, you're a 4 flat miler" - not sure if he had a specific guy in mind but that seems about right from my experience.

So 16x 30/30 for a 3:45 guy seems about right if you had juice left for a 60 at the end. I give these in smaller sets to the high school kids I coach, great way to force kids to get used to running fast while dealing with crap in their legs.

I think the 30/30 hits 800 m strength runners very differently from the way it hits 5000 guys. I was able to do 12 of the 30/30s, and I could also do the 60/90s (even harder than the 30/30s from my perspective), albeit slipping a few seconds on the last couple. I couldn't dream of ever doing a sub 16min 5k.

How frequent? This is not a workout you should be doing "frequently" depending on how often you're referring to.

It was interesting to hear the opinion of other coaches about the correlation between 30/30 and results.

i would say it indicates that you've trained more for distance and that you're running your 400 time trial off of strength. most hs/college 4:31 guys can run at least 57 or 56 but that's a function of their age (as well as younger kids tending to focus on speedwork more). if youve been focusing on 5k work for a while, what you described is a normal outcome.

don't forget that to run, say, 4:26, you don't need to be able to run under 30 for 200 for any part of that race. your best race will be dead even 33.low splits.

while this 30x30 thing is useful for people who are at a certain level, it doesn't really make any sense for runners faster or slower. just because it sounds catchy doesn't mean there's any science to it. 30 seconds is a completely arbitrary time and the vast majority of runners have no business attempting to do 30 second 200s in any capacity.

Umm. This thread has nothing to do with you or the people you coach. "Oregon 30/30" applies to high level collegiate runners, the kind who are already competitive in conference or national championships, so it doesn't make any sense for you to weigh in.

I had done 30/30s during marathon training as a way to keep in touch with my faster self on a weekly basis. Generally, I did 16 of them every week. Dellinger just happened to be at the track for one session and asked "how many?" I told him 20, but if I wanted to get after it, I'd be good for 24. Since I've never been one to race the workouts 20 was good enough for me. I actually ran 29.2/30.8.

I'm very curious how you would've stacked 30/30s into a marathon week, not to bug you but what would Monday-Sunday have looked like?

When I get to my desktop I'll do that for you.

Great 5k time. To me what your describing is indicative of age progression. You can retain / improve V02 max for a long time, but raw speed erodes consistently past 25 or so.

I wouldn't say it's "meaningless", but yes, you're correct. The specific workout as it is related to the overall training plan doesn't guarantee anything. Nonetheless, it is a quality workout indicating a good level of fitness and something to build on.

This is generally correct — workouts that amount to [many (slow) 200 reps with standing rest] are basically useless as a predictive tool for younger mid-distance runners. It’s too easy for mid-d runners to grit through those workouts without actually having the strength needed to run the times the workouts “predict” for 1500m+.

The 30/30 200s were just a keep in touch with track speed effort in the winter after running a 4-5 mile tempo in the morning. They were basically an extended strides session and never meant to be a hard workout. The day itself was tiring because of the early morning tempo run at Amazon trail and then 30/30 200s in the afternoon, which were easy. I don’t think you can predict anything from 30/30 200s. Now Bill’s 880/330 workout was one you could predict something from. Even though the track was now 400m, he’d still call the workout 880/330. It was sets of 800m, short rest, followed by a faster 300m. Another thing Bill did was have us start our track reps in the middle of the home straight. That always felt strange to me. We used to do a long workout on Amazon that totaled 7 miles. I can’t remember the exact workout, but the 30/30 200s were nothing compared to that workout and many other of the workouts we did at Oregon. Bill also love “cut down” workouts, which meant each rep was faster than the last. The workouts on Amazon trail were harder than anything we did on the track. There would be 50 plus guys, including pros, semi pros, ex-ducks, the Oregon team, all doing the same workout. The Amazon trail workouts were long, tough and very competitive. The 30/30 200s were nothing.

Bowerman coached good to excellent college athletes. That's who his workouts were designed for, not everyone.

Um…duh?

This workout was obviously set for runners in a narrow band of ability, for whom the 30-second 200s would be about 1500/mile pace, ie 4:00 mile / 3:43 1500.

There is no reason that a slower high school or female runner couldn’t simply do it as 15x200m at mile pace with 30s rest.