this is the question yeah. I'd guess 90%+ of NYRR's customer base are not competitive athletes, on clubs, training to go faster, etc. The clubs recognize this.
All I can say is that NYRR has a responsibility to tend to the competitive teams. No, they don't need us, and yes we need them. But I'd say it's the same reason car companies lose billions racing...you need to tend to the bleeding edge if you want to be a relevant organization and keep developing. And being associated with elites raises your own image.
And this running boom will end eventually, fields will shrink and NYRR will be grateful to have steady customers from the clubs.
And just in a historical sense...an org like NYRR has a responsibility to the racers. They just do.
What exactly do you want them to do? They have a Team Championship Race and a club night.
The reality is that NYRR has never been doing better. Every race sells out several months in advance. I’d put the probability of the NYC Half, Brooklyn Half and NYC Marathon not selling out at zero.
It started going downhill way before that happened; the decline started about 2002 or do.
What was a NYC friendly running club turned into the usual corporate greedy business. Mary Wittenberg had a lot to do with that. Once the club (NYRRC back then) started down that path, there was no turning back and that's how it got to be like it is today.
When the big dollars start to flow, not much good can follow.
Mary did a great job in restoring the NYC marathon as one of the top marathons in the world. It's quality at the top was slipping and she restored it. Pretty sure she started the NYC Half. Both great things in my book.
$60 a year and you can enter races for $25? In NY that to be honest seems like a bargain but I don't race much. If you're a big runner and want guaranteed entry into the NYC marathon you are going to pay for it. 9 X $25 = $225. Even if its 9x $40= 360. There clearly are a ton of people who will pay $400+ to get to race essentially once a month and then pay to run the NYC marathon.
The 5k Turkey Trot I helped direct in my town cost $40 and we just gave out a bottle of water at the finish:) We did make $40k for charity!
Jae Lee Vp General (Counsel & Asst Secretary) $237,938
Ted Metellus Vp Edp (Race Dir. Of Tcs Nyc Marathon) $231,687
Bruno Charles Garcia (Vp, Marketing & Communications) $227,427
Michael Capiraso (Former Ceo/Board Member) $198,000
What a planet we live on. The "cultural, diversity, equity and inclusion" svp makes more money than the senior IT & information, the general counsel/CLO, and the svp of marketing and communications???? I understand it is necessary in this day and age, but how on earth can that be more important than marketing, legal or IT?
And there you have it. The root cause analysis on what's happening.
And just like every other industry, corp, etc. going nuts onto this bandwagon- it coulda just been an inservice. Nobody needs a dedicated full time employee-let alone a VP- for this, unless you're going for performative antics.
this is the question yeah. I'd guess 90%+ of NYRR's customer base are not competitive athletes, on clubs, training to go faster, etc. The clubs recognize this.
All I can say is that NYRR has a responsibility to tend to the competitive teams. No, they don't need us, and yes we need them. But I'd say it's the same reason car companies lose billions racing...you need to tend to the bleeding edge if you want to be a relevant organization and keep developing. And being associated with elites raises your own image.
And this running boom will end eventually, fields will shrink and NYRR will be grateful to have steady customers from the clubs.
And just in a historical sense...an org like NYRR has a responsibility to the racers. They just do.
What exactly do you want them to do? They have a Team Championship Race and a club night.
The reality is that NYRR has never been doing better. Every race sells out several months in advance. I’d put the probability of the NYC Half, Brooklyn Half and NYC Marathon not selling out at zero.
Many of us locals are not happy, but truth is, what they're doing is clearly working very well for them and business has never been better.
And what are the collective we and our clubs going to do? Stop doing their races? HA! And they know it!
It's all about the revenue stream. $60 membership + 9 + 1 just get into NYCM. Woke socialists took over the organization during Covid. Now they're in full control. Remember it's racist that other people besides mostly whites jog. Who stopped anyone from putting on a shoe and going to out to run?
What exactly do you want them to do? They have a Team Championship Race and a club night.
The reality is that NYRR has never been doing better. Every race sells out several months in advance. I’d put the probability of the NYC Half, Brooklyn Half and NYC Marathon not selling out at zero.
Many of us locals are not happy, but truth is, what they're doing is clearly working very well for them and business has never been better.
And what are the collective we and our clubs going to do? Stop doing their races? HA! And they know it!
note that NYRR is a non-profit so they aren't working on a profit motive. In theory.
my biggest worry is that clubs start abandoning the club points series and therefore NYC running loses an absolute jewel. A quality post-collegiate road racing league. Not sure people understand how hard it is to find quality races like the club points races.
Many of us locals are not happy, but truth is, what they're doing is clearly working very well for them and business has never been better.
And what are the collective we and our clubs going to do? Stop doing their races? HA! And they know it!
note that NYRR is a non-profit so they aren't working on a profit motive. In theory.
Key words: in theory. All it really means is that they don’t have investors and any revenue they generate goes back into the company (one main way to do this is to put it into salaries).
I know a guy who was the head of a YMCA branch, and he said that every meeting with the woman who headed the NYC division was focused on increasing revenue. Not charity, community, or any other value you might (once have) associated with the Y.
I agree with your points on what NYRR should be, but it’s just not that anymore. They wanna make that bread and the public is all about helping.
note that NYRR is a non-profit so they aren't working on a profit motive. In theory.
Key words: in theory. All it really means is that they don’t have investors and any revenue they generate goes back into the company (one main way to do this is to put it into salaries).
I know a guy who was the head of a YMCA branch, and he said that every meeting with the woman who headed the NYC division was focused on increasing revenue. Not charity, community, or any other value you might (once have) associated with the Y.
I agree with your points on what NYRR should be, but it’s just not that anymore. They wanna make that bread and the public is all about helping.
I don't think revenue seeking is the root problem here.
The root problem is that NYRR staff used to come from competitive running so they understood it and nurtured it. But all those people left or were fired.
The new, post scandal, post covid NYRR staff is all about community and recreational running, getting kids running and getting older folks off the couch. Which is all great and worthy, but NYRR doesn't 'get' the clubs anymore, or competitive running in general.
We only have two choices when it comes to the NYRR: be part of the problem (do nothing but complain) or be part of the solution (be active and try to change the leadership/board).
We only have two choices when it comes to the NYRR: be part of the problem (do nothing but complain) or be part of the solution (be active and try to change the leadership/board).
Leadership and board not gonna change. So forget that.
I understand the club council meetings have gotten very frustrating with the lack of cooperation they are giving regarding race planning, what races are included the club points series in the next few months even remains a mystery. How are we supposed to work around that?
So, another choice is to be open to other options. Other "chains" putting on race series, NJ races, etc.
It's all about the revenue stream. $60 membership + 9 + 1 just get into NYCM. Woke socialists took over the organization during Covid. Now they're in full control. Remember it's racist that other people besides mostly whites jog. Who stopped anyone from putting on a shoe and going to out to run?
The irony of the woke socialists pricing people out of participation
We only have two choices when it comes to the NYRR: be part of the problem (do nothing but complain) or be part of the solution (be active and try to change the leadership/board).
I understand the club council meetings have gotten very frustrating with the lack of cooperation they are giving regarding race planning, what races are included the club points series in the next few months even remains a mystery. How are we supposed to work around that?
yes we need a rethink on club council and I believe there will be an effort next year to get that done.
note that NYRR is a non-profit so they aren't working on a profit motive. In theory.
Key words: in theory. All it really means is that they don’t have investors and any revenue they generate goes back into the company (one main way to do this is to put it into salaries).
This is pretty common with non-profits. Why do so many athletes have their own charity? To employ their family members and friends.
I just went to NYRR homepage: tried to look up recent results. When you click on "RUN" a menue opens with pictures, stories etc. The actual results are hidden under "more". Tells you everything you need to know.
Key words: in theory. All it really means is that they don’t have investors and any revenue they generate goes back into the company (one main way to do this is to put it into salaries).
I know a guy who was the head of a YMCA branch, and he said that every meeting with the woman who headed the NYC division was focused on increasing revenue. Not charity, community, or any other value you might (once have) associated with the Y.
I agree with your points on what NYRR should be, but it’s just not that anymore. They wanna make that bread and the public is all about helping.
I don't think revenue seeking is the root problem here.
The root problem is that NYRR staff used to come from competitive running so they understood it and nurtured it. But all those people left or were fired.
The new, post scandal, post covid NYRR staff is all about community and recreational running, getting kids running and getting older folks off the couch. Which is all great and worthy, but NYRR doesn't 'get' the clubs anymore, or competitive running in general.
Community running is about increasing the number of runners, i.e. their customer base. While perhaps worthy, it’s a goal that leads to more profit, which is a different focus from competitive running. And there is no motivation to ever go back because the profit dictate won’t let them. Who’s going to suggest it and take a paycut?
Key words: in theory. All it really means is that they don’t have investors and any revenue they generate goes back into the company (one main way to do this is to put it into salaries).
This is pretty common with non-profits. Why do so many athletes have their own charity? To employ their family members and friends.
I just went to NYRR homepage: tried to look up recent results. When you click on "RUN" a menue opens with pictures, stories etc. The actual results are hidden under "more". Tells you everything you need to know.
nah you can't fault NYRR on results. They have an excellent database. That's not a fair criticism. Just search "NYRR Results"
I don't think revenue seeking is the root problem here.
The root problem is that NYRR staff used to come from competitive running so they understood it and nurtured it. But all those people left or were fired.
The new, post scandal, post covid NYRR staff is all about community and recreational running, getting kids running and getting older folks off the couch. Which is all great and worthy, but NYRR doesn't 'get' the clubs anymore, or competitive running in general.
Community running is about increasing the number of runners, i.e. their customer base. While perhaps worthy, it’s a goal that leads to more profit, which is a different focus from competitive running. And there is no motivation to ever go back because the profit dictate won’t let them. Who’s going to suggest it and take a paycut?
NYRR races are way way oversubscribed. Races sell out literally 5 months in advance. NYRR has a locked-in revenue base of sold-out races. They don't need to jam more people into the system to get money. You are barking up the wrong tree.
it's not about revenue-seeking...it's that the focus of the organization is recreational running and not competitive racing.
A solution is for NYRR to set aside entries for the clubs even after the races sell out...which NYRR does, but not nearly enough.
Community running is about increasing the number of runners, i.e. their customer base. While perhaps worthy, it’s a goal that leads to more profit, which is a different focus from competitive running. And there is no motivation to ever go back because the profit dictate won’t let them. Who’s going to suggest it and take a paycut?
NYRR races are way way oversubscribed. Races sell out literally 5 months in advance. NYRR has a locked-in revenue base of sold-out races. They don't need to jam more people into the system to get money. You are barking up the wrong tree.
it's not about revenue-seeking...it's that the focus of the organization is recreational running and not competitive racing.
A solution is for NYRR to set aside entries for the clubs even after the races sell out...which NYRR does, but not nearly enough.
I guess agree to disagree. What I’m saying is that there isn’t a path where they could possibly take pivot to catering to a niche when their business model is focused on the masses. They aren’t going to cut infrastructure (jobs, salaries) so they can get back to what they were.
Also, sold out races create hype. That’s a good thing for them. Not enough “supply” is a short-term problem. There are plenty of ways they can (and will) expand in the coming years to accommodate their growing customer base. One way they’ve already done this are virtual races. People are literally paying to run on their own.