I would assume it is more talent. In every 1000 kids you might have 1 4:10 kid and 50 4:40 kids. You can win in XC with a bunch 4:40 kids who run 16:00 5ks. Get a few of the more talented kids in the 4:20 range and you are a national title contender. Talent gives you peak performances. Training systems give you depth…
but like i said, if you have 120 kids showing up and zero bother with creating people to run 110H, 400s, 800s, or anything shorter than a mile, the volume helps find some above-average kids in bulk. thing being, i had 2 guys faster than their best are -- talentwise -- on an above average HS team. who themselves never made state as we had a hard area. but we weren't going to state in XC because we had a drop off within the 7 after the actual talent.
what SC does is have a bunch of nearly identical above-average kids in a pile. so they can have 5 finishing almost atop each other. which is how you win XC meets. longer races that reward people who run fairly hard on a pace. i say fairly hard because state TF shows if they have to run 4:0x they don't have it in them. you put them on a track, they don't win individually hence my distinction between great talent and above-average.
They had the first #7 across the line and they always do. It's more than demographics and #s. Two hundred kids don't want to run for a half ass program. It's what happens when top resources meet top coaching.
but like i said, if you have 120 kids showing up and zero bother with creating people to run 110H, 400s, 800s, or anything shorter than a mile, the volume helps find some above-average kids in bulk. thing being, i had 2 guys faster than their best are -- talentwise -- on an above average HS team. who themselves never made state as we had a hard area. but we weren't going to state in XC because we had a drop off within the 7 after the actual talent.
what SC does is have a bunch of nearly identical above-average kids in a pile. so they can have 5 finishing almost atop each other. which is how you win XC meets. longer races that reward people who run fairly hard on a pace. i say fairly hard because state TF shows if they have to run 4:0x they don't have it in them. you put them on a track, they don't win individually hence my distinction between great talent and above-average.
They had the first #7 across the line and they always do. It's more than demographics and #s. Two hundred kids don't want to run for a half ass program. It's what happens when top resources meet top coaching.
Also helps when the city stacks all the children in one umbrella of a high school.
They had the first #7 across the line and they always do. It's more than demographics and #s. Two hundred kids don't want to run for a half ass program. It's what happens when top resources meet top coaching.
Also helps when the city stacks all the children in one umbrella of a high school.
I think Southlake would love to have a strong sprints and jumps team, but there isn't that much talent to go around. Football isn't pushing players to run track like some schools. I think the main factors are 50% demographics of the community and 50% there isn't the T&F summer club culture like many communities. There honestly isn't a huge distance running culture before High School. Hardly any youth clubs or running in Southlake and even the Middle School mostly "fun running" 8-15 miles a week. More credit to Justin for taking what he has to work with at 14 years old to state runners by 15-17.
Another data point take a look at the top boy and girls runners for Southlake in Middle School, notice how 75% don't run in High School? Like many schools, the best runners in Middle School with limited team athletics are usually first sport soccer, volleyball, wrestling etc.
First off Caden does not know the big words you used here. Second, that is incorrect, Carroll does paavo but that is not at ALL the composition of a normal week.
If they tell you they're doing PAAVO it's a lie; listen to this lecture from their head coach. Nothing he describes sounds like it comes from that program at all:
It seriously isn't, listen to a training lecture or two from their head coach, maybe he's using bits and pieces from it but the program as a whole isn't being used, he makes no mention of using Short PPMs, Long PPMs, Critical Threshold, Short Intervals or Long Intervals. His philosophy sounds a lot more in line with Vigil.
If they tell you they're doing PAAVO it's a lie; listen to this lecture from their head coach. Nothing he describes sounds like it comes from that program at all:
Maybe if they did PAAVO like Boerne Champion they also would have won NXN by now… alas Southlake comes up short every time they show up to the big dance 😓
They 100% use PAAVO. I followed one of their runners on strava for a while, and they were doing the PAAVO workouts. During the summer and beginning of XC they were doing SPPM and LPPM pretty much every week. At some point during the XC season they started doing the LSI and HSI sets. They also went back and did a cycle of PPMs again in the middle of the season before going back to the SI workouts. They typically did the sets of 4x400m SI but would also do sets of 3x600m SI as well sometimes. Other interesting aspects were that they would sometimes run the PPM with a VERY fast first mile and then try to hang on the rest of the way. Also, they would sometimes run the recovery during the SI sets at a very fast pace.
Other interesting aspects were that they would sometimes run the PPM with a VERY fast first mile and then try to hang on the rest of the way.
I've talked to a former SLC runner who said that the very fast first mile was a big emphasis several times a season, although they always tried to get out hard every PPM.
He was on varsity and described running something like 4:40-5:00-5:10-5:15-5:25-5:30-5:30-5:35 for a lot of his PPM's.
He also told me that one time Milesplit or Flotrack came to document a workout and the coach completely changed it up and had them do something they had never done before because he didn't want the specifics of the workout to get out. That means that potentially some of the online stuff is less than truthful.
They also go to running camps during the summer, including camps that are PAAVO clinics with other adherents.
Isn't that the whole point of the PPM? Trying to hold a pace you know is too fast for the distance? On the PPM Chart for example a 5:00 miler would be expected to hold a 5:50 pace for 4+ miles. And the faster the runner's mile time is, the faster the PPM pace. For example a 4:25 miler's PPM pace is supposed to be at 4:45. This is an insanely hard workout when you think about it.
It seriously isn't, listen to a training lecture or two from their head coach, maybe he's using bits and pieces from it but the program as a whole isn't being used, he makes no mention of using Short PPMs, Long PPMs, Critical Threshold, Short Intervals or Long Intervals. His philosophy sounds a lot more in line with Vigil.
It's easier to just say "we run 12 miles at 7:30 pace" than "we do 12 miles at PPM". Or similar no need to complicate for people listening/watching, especially when they don't have previous knowledge of PAAVO and how it works.
Notes: His methods for inspiring people are very similar to Vigil because I don't think anyone has ever been better than him at that.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
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Adding on.