2K WR is INSANE as well - Jakob should go for it

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  • John Wesley Harding

    Member since 06/19/2014.

    7,171 posts. Last post 2 days ago.
    1 year ago 06/11/2023 4:37pm EDT
    re: Top of the Mountain

    Top of the Mountain wrote:

    Doing 6x800 closing with 2 in 1:49 is serious business. He should give the 800 a go and might be able to hold his top gear 2 laps... 1:40.

    He's in peak form. Don't delay. They need to set up some time trials for him like Webb's mile.

    Did you just say that Jakob might be able to run 1:40? Wow.

    I agree that 3:26.00 might be out of reach because of limits on his speed, not his endurance. I believe he can run the 3k WR after Friday. The 2k seems very possible: it’s 3:33.59 1500 pace which Jakob makes look very comfortable, and he split 4:51.6 for the last 2k of his 2 mile. The mile is a little less likely, but still conceivable. I’m now sure he can run under 12:40 for 5k, it’s just a question of by how much. Longer WRs than that will never happen.

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    Appreciation??

    Member since 08/16/2021.

    434 posts. Last post 4 days ago.
    1 year ago 06/11/2023 4:44pm EDT
    re: Ahkirr

    Ahkirr wrote:

    To beat the 2K WR he must run a 3:49 mile, and basically still keep this pace almost an entire other lap.

    But I think given he is a strength oriented runner he is suited for that type of performance.

    He could probably get it if he wanted to. His 2 mile indicates 3:43-3:44 mile shape, and he's a better 3k/5k runner than El G was.

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    Impala31

    Member since 05/15/2020.

    1,435 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 4:58am EDT
    re: John Wesley Harding

    John Wesley Harding wrote:

    Did you just say that Jakob might be able to run 1:40? Wow.

    Some people are getting a bit optimistic with Jakob now. I guess that's the effect of a mind blowing performance

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    objectiveobserver

    Member since 07/23/2019.

    1,869 posts. Last post 2 minutes ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 5:35am EDT
    re: Ahkirr

    Ahkirr wrote:

    To beat the 2K WR he must run a 3:49 mile, and basically still keep this pace almost an entire other lap.

    But I think given he is a strength oriented runner he is suited for that type of performance.

    I think it´s easier to say that he shall run a 1600m in 3;48 (57 per laps) and slightly faster (56.5) in the last lap to take the WR.

    If he had run the 2000m in Paris instead of the 2 miles he would have got it. And with a nice margin I would think.

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    Freediverunner

    Member since 01/10/2020.

    18 posts. Last post 1 year ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 5:37am EDT
    re: Impala31

    Why it is so obvious that he needs more 800m speed for the 1500m Wr? Lagat was never able to break 1:46 and tried it every year. Despite of that he ran a low 3:26. The times of Coe, ovett and Cram are gone. 1500m is more strength based today. I think Jacob can make it. And then every other Wr between 1000m and Marathon. 1000m is too fast for him and for Marathon he is too heavy. The next decade of running will be big fun!! Cheers

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    LarsL11

    Member since 05/02/2022.

    1,582 posts. Last post 1 day ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 5:49am EDT
    re: Impala31

    Impala31 wrote:

    1500, mile, 2000, 3000, 5000, 10000. I would say they are roughly all equally insanely strong.

    Jakob best distance now is probably the 3k. The shorter the event, the tougher it will be for him to break the WR because of his lack of world class speed. He has a shot this year at the 3k. 2k/5k should be close, doable but very thin margin. For the,1500/mile, 0,5-1 sec short I would say. 10k, maybe not yet.

    Nothing screams "lacking world class speed" as 3:28,32.

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    objectiveobserver

    Member since 07/23/2019.

    1,869 posts. Last post 2 minutes ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 6:02am EDT
    re: Impala31

    Impala31 wrote:

    John Wesley Harding wrote:

    Did you just say that Jakob might be able to run 1:40? Wow.

    Some people are getting a bit optimistic with Jakob now. I guess that's the effect of a mind blowing performance

    Even you, impala, AND JWH who have both become more positive on Jakob the last years still don´t grasp that Jakob will only be stronger for several years to come as his already impressive aerobic base will increase further.

    AND you also both think Jakob lacks finishing speed possible considering his (to his standards) mediocre 800m PB. I my opinion this is just a negative myth created by biased people on these pages. They confirm to each other that Jakob lacks speed conveniently ignoring that Jakob has beaten top finishers like Centro, Engels, Tim, Lewandowski. The 2 first every time they have met, starting in 2018. Tim and Lew: After Jakob "grew up".

    I will say Jakob has one of the fastest last 100m of all current top milers. The few times he was outsprinted the last years (Tim, Tefera and Wightman) he was only beaten with a narrow margin.

    He will also be able to improve his 800m PB if he some time in the future cared to find a race under good conditions and at a time where he is in peak shape. At least he can get a 1:44 time.

    I have stated long time ago he will get all the WRs from 1500m and at least up to 10000m. IF HE STAYS HEALTHY.

    The 1500m and the mile : He will go well under.

    I, however, don´t think he will go for the WR in Oslo this friday BUT I THINK HE WILL TRY TO GET A PB.

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    objectiveobserver

    Member since 07/23/2019.

    1,869 posts. Last post 2 minutes ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 6:08am EDT
    re: Impala31

    Impala31 wrote:

    it is time wrote

    You think Jakob lacks world class speed? That's an insane statement.

    Maybe I should have said "world class 800m speed". Is that clearer? World class 800m speed is 1:43. Do you believe Jakob runs 1:43 for the 800?

    He himself admits that the 1500 WR will be almost impossible for him because of it. He is a 5k-10k guy spending his young years in shorter distances because it's more fun for him and maybe more valuable in his mind.

    Where did he admit that the 1500 m WR would be almost impossible for him?

    I think he believes he can break all the track WRs indoor and outdoor from 1500m and up.

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    The observing northman

    Member since 02/20/2023.

    161 posts. Last post 1 week ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 6:38am EDT
    re: objectiveobserver

    objectiveobserver wrote:

    Impala31 wrote:

    Maybe I should have said "world class 800m speed". Is that clearer? World class 800m speed is 1:43. Do you believe Jakob runs 1:43 for the 800?

    He himself admits that the 1500 WR will be almost impossible for him because of it. He is a 5k-10k guy spending his young years in shorter distances because it's more fun for him and maybe more valuable in his mind.

    Where did he admit that the 1500 m WR would be almost impossible for him?

    I think he believes he can break all the track WRs indoor and outdoor from 1500m and up.

    He said that in an interview after Paris, I think it was CitiusMag. It's on Youtube.

  • yox

    Anonymous Poster

    1 year ago 06/12/2023 7:11am EDT
    re: LarsL11

    LarsL11 wrote:

    Impala31 wrote:

    1500, mile, 2000, 3000, 5000, 10000. I would say they are roughly all equally insanely strong.

    Jakob best distance now is probably the 3k. The shorter the event, the tougher it will be for him to break the WR because of his lack of world class speed. He has a shot this year at the 3k. 2k/5k should be close, doable but very thin margin. For the,1500/mile, 0,5-1 sec short I would say. 10k, maybe not yet.

    Nothing screams "lacking world class speed" as 3:28,32.

    Now respond to his next post.

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    Impala31

    Member since 05/15/2020.

    1,435 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 7:12am EDT
    re: LarsL11

    LarsL11 wrote:

    Nothing screams "lacking world class speed" as 3:28,32.

    When we are talking about speed for a particular event, the 1500 here, we need to look at the level of the athlete in shorter races, the 800 here.

    We can have a good estimation of his level in the 800 as he ran a 1:46.44 PB in a time trial race while running 3:28:68 the same year. It does scream "lack of world class speed". The 1500 is at the very end of one side of his gold medal-level range. Even If you consider that he improved by 2sec in the 1500 since 2020, which he still has to prove (but likely), there is no reason to think he has improved to a bigger extent in the 800 in the meantime.

    Last year, he finished 4th in 1:47:22 in Bergen, in a race with no world class 800 runner. So why would you think he can easily go under 1:45? let alone 1:44.

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    GreatDane

    Member since 06/22/2021.

    1,513 posts. Last post 1 hour ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 7:12am EDT
    re: Not Happening

    Not Happening wrote:

    Jakob ain't touching the 1500m, Mile, or 2k Record. El G the Goat. Jakob don't have the raw speed. El G closed 1:46 in the LAST 800m of 1500m in the 2004 Olympic Final. North Africans have superior genetics in Mid Distance competitions. Stop with the racist allegations that El G Doped. There is no evidence that he did.

    Your argument is flawed. On paper El G’s 800m best is 1:47.18 and yet you mention here that he ran the last 800m of a 1500m in 1:46. Similarly Jakob’s personal best 800m is listed as 1:46 but he 100% could run faster than that, even possibly as part of a longer distance race like El G did. The issue is that both athletes rarely competed and/or focused on the 800m so it’s difficult to know what either could have ultimately run for it.

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    Impala31

    Member since 05/15/2020.

    1,435 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 7:23am EDT
    re: GreatDane

    GreatDane wrote:

    Not Happening wrote:

    Jakob ain't touching the 1500m, Mile, or 2k Record. El G the Goat. Jakob don't have the raw speed. El G closed 1:46 in the LAST 800m of 1500m in the 2004 Olympic Final. North Africans have superior genetics in Mid Distance competitions. Stop with the racist allegations that El G Doped. There is no evidence that he did.

    Your argument is flawed. On paper El G’s 800m best is 1:47.18 and yet you mention here that he ran the last 800m of a 1500m in 1:46. Similarly Jakob’s personal best 800m is listed as 1:46 but he 100% could run faster than that, even possibly as part of a longer distance race like El G did. The issue is that both athletes rarely competed and/or focused on the 800m so it’s difficult to know what either could have ultimately run for it.

    The difference is that Jakob, contrary to El G, has ran several 800, including a time trial race made up for him to PB, which resulted in 1:46:44 only. El Gerrouj ran the 800 only once, that was when he was young and a 3:31 guy

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    Impala31

    Member since 05/15/2020.

    1,435 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 7:35am EDT
    re: Freediverunner

    Freediverunner wrote:

    Why it is so obvious that he needs more 800m speed for the 1500m Wr? Lagat was never able to break 1:46 and tried it every year. Despite of that he ran a low 3:26. The times of Coe, ovett and Cram are gone. 1500m is more strength based today. I think Jacob can make it. And then every other Wr between 1000m and Marathon. 1000m is too fast for him and for Marathon he is too heavy. The next decade of running will be big fun!! Cheers

    Lagat was rabitted 1500m/1500 by El Gerrouj to go sub 3.27. Jakob needs to go sub 3:26 without this kind of help. I don't say it's impossible, just that it will be harder for him than WRs in longer distances. Otherwise I agree for everything else you said.

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    GreatDane

    Member since 06/22/2021.

    1,513 posts. Last post 1 hour ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 8:24am EDT
    re: Impala31

    Impala31 wrote:

    GreatDane wrote:

    Your argument is flawed. On paper El G’s 800m best is 1:47.18 and yet you mention here that he ran the last 800m of a 1500m in 1:46. Similarly Jakob’s personal best 800m is listed as 1:46 but he 100% could run faster than that, even possibly as part of a longer distance race like El G did. The issue is that both athletes rarely competed and/or focused on the 800m so it’s difficult to know what either could have ultimately run for it.

    The difference is that Jakob, contrary to El G, has ran several 800, including a time trial race made up for him to PB, which resulted in 1:46:44 only. El Gerrouj ran the 800 only once, that was when he was young and a 3:31 guy

    The time trial race was run back when he was 19. 1:46 for a non 800m specialist at that age is extraordinary. The other 800m races he has run have all typically been at the very start of the season and not throughout the season which is a poor indicator of what he could really run if he put more emphasis on it.

    This post was edited 32 seconds after it was posted.

  • SayWhattttt?

    Anonymous Poster

    1 year ago 06/12/2023 8:50am EDT
    re: GreatDane

    Yeah? Well your argument is flawed too!...meanie!!!

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    GreatDane

    Member since 06/22/2021.

    1,513 posts. Last post 1 hour ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 8:57am EDT
    re: SayWhattttt?

    SayWhattttt? wrote:

    Yeah? Well your argument is flawed too!...meanie!!!

    Lol I’m not trying to be mean nor was I mean. Just debating a topic. I don’t throw insults like many on here. Look maybe Jakob won’t run faster than a 1:46 800m or ever break the 1500m WR but I don’t believe there’s enough of an argument to write him off for either of those like so many claim on here.

    This post was edited 45 seconds after it was posted.
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    king999

    Member since 08/24/2003.

    1,875 posts. Last post 26 minutes ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 9:11am EDT
    re: Coevett

    Coevett wrote:

    Not Happening wrote:

    Jakob ain't touching the 1500m, Mile, or 2k Record. El G the Goat. Jakob don't have the raw speed. El G closed 1:46 in the LAST 800m of 1500m in the 2004 Olympic Final. North Africans have superior genetics in Mid Distance competitions. Stop with the racist allegations that El G Doped. There is no evidence that he did.

    Only on LetsRun could somebody claim that one 'race' has superior genetics and then accuse somebody of racism in the next sentence.

    El G was juiced into another universe. And North Africans have little difference in genetics to other Mediterranean peoples. They had absolutely no history before Morceli. Morceli jnr ran 14 seconds faster than his older brother, who coached him. The difference was EPO not genetics.

    Agree on all..2K record and 3K stand out to me as the dirtiest (if there is such a classification) of all marks to date. It is an absurdity.

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    Impala31

    Member since 05/15/2020.

    1,435 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    1 year ago 06/12/2023 9:35am EDT
    re: GreatDane

    GreatDane wrote:

    Impala31 wrote:

    The difference is that Jakob, contrary to El G, has ran several 800, including a time trial race made up for him to PB, which resulted in 1:46:44 only. El Gerrouj ran the 800 only once, that was when he was young and a 3:31 guy

    The time trial race was run back when he was 19. 1:46 for a non 800m specialist at that age is extraordinary. The other 800m races he has run have all typically been at the very start of the season and not throughout the season which is a poor indicator of what he could really run if he put more emphasis on it.

    He was a 3:28 guy at that time but only a 1:46:44. Last year 800 was beginning of June, just like his 2miles WR, beaten by mid 1:44 and low 1:45 guys.

    I still agree that he can run faster in the 800 but not as fast as many think here. I would say 1:45 low.

  • Remember when

    Anonymous Poster

    1 year ago 06/12/2023 10:35am EDT
    re: ElGisonDope

    ElGisonDope wrote:

    Impala31 wrote:

    Maybe I should have said "world class 800m speed". Is that clearer? World class 800m speed is 1:43. Do you believe Jakob runs 1:43 for the 800?

    He himself admits that the 1500 WR will be almost impossible for him because of it. He is a 5k-10k guy spending his young years in shorter distances because it's more fun for him and maybe more valuable in his mind.

    also, the 1500m and mile record are the most obvious cases of doping there are in this sport. if jakob would take the same stuff el g was on one these wr would be gone in no time

    I remember when the womens 1500 and 10k were the most obvious cases of doping. Then that talk disappeared as soon as a non-Chinese athlete destroyed the record. Just funny how times change.

    I also think the women's 800 is still the most obvious case, even more so than the men's 1500/mile times.

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