I was there. Gorze was not doing a fartlek. He hammered the whole way, solo, in the rain and was going for it. He was not happy to miss the record. He got a lot of love from the fans and a big win, but not record. Hats off to him for giving it a really good shot. 2M is not just 3200, btw, so this time is actually better than it looks...
For historical perspective, back in 1969, Pre ran all his school's duel meets that season (always doubling - one all-out race, one cruise effort). He ran on crappy tracks and against few rivals. But he trained specifically to his goals of 1:52, 3:56, 8:40 --- so it wasn't like he just stumbled upon these kind of results. His coach, McClure, was knowledgeable and qualified for this project.
Last night, Gorze had the best track in the world (and the best shoes), but didn't really have anyone to run with either. He has the talent and coaching he needs. There are a lot of similarities to be honest.
p.s. I am HUGE Gorze fan, so this is not meant as a slight on him that he couldn't beat a Pre record. It just shocks me how fast Pre was running over 50 years ago (in leather spikes on cinder tracks).
Likely will give the 2M record another shot at either the Brooks PR meet or NON in June . . . and he will have plenty of competition in either of those races.
Pre's performances still amaze over half a century later . . . that 8:41.5 he ran 54 years ago broke Rick Riley's former hs record by almost 7 seconds . . . and is the race where Pre's legend and adulation began . . .
Solo, in the rain. I'm sure he can run faster. Wouldn't be shocked to see him drop a 28:40 later this season.
Pre also ran his solo, cinder track, no super spikes, 1969
nice, you want a cookie? i’m aware of basic facts. i was giving a little context to race for anyone visiting this thread because i’m sure a lot of people expected him to get the record after a 13:56 indoors. you don’t need to swoop in and talk about how much better guys from the 60s were, we already know that.
I was there. Gorze was not doing a fartlek. He hammered the whole way, solo, in the rain and was going for it. He was not happy to miss the record. He got a lot of love from the fans and a big win, but not record. Hats off to him for giving it a really good shot. 2M is not just 3200, btw, so this time is actually better than it looks...
For historical perspective, back in 1969, Pre ran all his school's duel meets that season (always doubling - one all-out race, one cruise effort). He ran on crappy tracks and against few rivals. But he trained specifically to his goals of 1:52, 3:56, 8:40 --- so it wasn't like he just stumbled upon these kind of results. His coach, McClure, was knowledgeable and qualified for this project.
Last night, Gorze had the best track in the world (and the best shoes), but didn't really have anyone to run with either. He has the talent and coaching he needs. There are a lot of similarities to be honest.
p.s. I am HUGE Gorze fan, so this is not meant as a slight on him that he couldn't beat a Pre record. It just shocks me how fast Pre was running over 50 years ago (in leather spikes on cinder tracks).
Likely will give the 2M record another shot at either the Brooks PR meet or NON in June . . . and he will have plenty of competition in either of those races.
Pre's performances still amaze over half a century later . . . that 8:41.5 he ran 54 years ago broke Rick Riley's former hs record by almost 7 seconds . . . and is the race where Pre's legend and adulation began . . .
I never even thought of that as the record considering Lindgren ran 8:40.0 on an indoor 160yd board track in 1964. Had anyone even broken 9 before that?
Not that Pre's mark isn't outstanding, but Lindgren was just from another world.
I never even thought of that as the record considering Lindgren ran 8:40.0 on an indoor 160yd board track in 1964. Had anyone even broken 9 before that?
Not that Pre's mark isn't outstanding, but Lindgren was just from another world.
Prior to Riley's 8:48 from 1966, the hs outdoor record was Lindgren's 8:53.6 en route to either a 3 mile or 5k race in 1964.
Up until 1964, the prep 2-mile record was 9:09.8 set at a December 1963 postal meet by Mike Ryan/Wilcox HS, Santa Clara, CA . . . who, incidentally, finished 2nd behind Lindgren at the 1969 NCAA XC champs in Van Cortlandt Park . . . and one place ahead of then-frosh Steve Prefontaine . . .
I never even thought of that as the record considering Lindgren ran 8:40.0 on an indoor 160yd board track in 1964. Had anyone even broken 9 before that?
Not that Pre's mark isn't outstanding, but Lindgren was just from another world.
Prior to Riley's 8:48 from 1966, the hs outdoor record was Lindgren's 8:53.6 en route to either a 3 mile or 5k race in 1964.
Up until 1964, the prep 2-mile record was 9:09.8 set at a December 1963 postal meet by Mike Ryan/Wilcox HS, Santa Clara, CA . . . who, incidentally, finished 2nd behind Lindgren at the 1969 NCAA XC champs in Van Cortlandt Park . . . and one place ahead of then-frosh Steve Prefontaine . . .
That really makes Jeff Nelson's 8:36.3 in 1979 even more special
Prior to Riley's 8:48 from 1966, the hs outdoor record was Lindgren's 8:53.6 en route to either a 3 mile or 5k race in 1964.
Up until 1964, the prep 2-mile record was 9:09.8 set at a December 1963 postal meet by Mike Ryan/Wilcox HS, Santa Clara, CA . . . who, incidentally, finished 2nd behind Lindgren at the 1969 NCAA XC champs in Van Cortlandt Park . . . and one place ahead of then-frosh Steve Prefontaine . . .
That really makes Jeff Nelson's 8:36.3 in 1979 even more special
Lindgren ran 8:46 prior to running 8:40.0. Using the NCAA conversion for undersized banked tracks, the 8:40 converts to 8:32. Lindgren's 8:40 was in a race that he led much of, Virgin and Pre soloed their outdoor marks. I always thought Nelson's 8:36 was underwhelming, he was essentially pulled along.
"Underwhelming"??? a Bit stiff wording I would say? I get your point, but a way bit severe.
He broke the record by 4 fulls seconds +, right? Virgin broke Prefontaines, by .7?
Virgin thru Nelson and others were right in my young following of the sport wheelhouse. I am very familiar with the works of Hulst, Serna, Chapa and that crew.and Nelson, throw in Thom Hunt's absurd at the time 4:02.7 on 11 lapper and 8:45..McChesney. 8:50 I think ..but you had to wait 30+ days for T and F News to even get a clue.. LOL
The splits say Gorze ran the 5th and 6th laps in 53/81, so he was probably just getting a fartlek in. Crazy that record is still standing after all the Oregon greats that came after. Didn't Rupp split like 8:45 2 miles into his 5k record? Kinda surprised he never ran a faster 2 mile.
Oregon kids have been racing 3000m in state for many years, so not many chances to beat Pre's 2M record since they changed over. I think Pre ran a few 3k races and had an Oregon record that Rupp beat when he ran 8:03 3k at one point.
This is true, but who would have broken it if they had been running the 2 mile distance?
Pre: yet another high school great who never ran a 1600 nor 3200. Ryun, Lindgren, Chapa, Rupp, Verzbikas.... the list goes on.
Why would this offend anyone, that's what was normal before the late 70s
Exactly, I love the listing of 16's and 32's that are clearly inferior to the yards distances..lol. Nobody cares..it's an easy conversion.
Here are the conversions for Rupp's run :3200m = 8:38.6 2Mile = 8:41.64
John Trautman decades earlier 8:05 at Penn Relays....3200m = 8:40.74 2Mile = 8:43.8..as another example. Neither faster than Nelson, Virgin , Pre or Lindgren's 11 lap freakish effort.