Who was better at XC in high school? German Fernandez or Aaron Sahlman?

German, and Alan Webb were the best I ever saw, Until Kessler, of course I am biased..lol, Hobbs could have run either distance with each of them for sure, and Luka Verzbikas of course. I never saw Jim Ryun as a HS'er. German's 3:55 solo, was the most impressive run I had seen from a College frosh ever.

My mind has been infected by people claiming Webb could easily run sub 8:30 his senior year. I honestly think Drew Hunter would've had a better shot than Webb.

Everything is speculation obviously, one way or the other, but I am confident Leo could do it in a couple months from now if he had a great day. He's already run 3:58 and 3:59 equivalents. I think he could've been in 3:58 shape as early as last year if he didn't get sick, so I wouldn't be shocked if he could get to 3:55-6 this year, and he seems to have more strength than his brother who ran 7:57 and 13:43. All it comes down to is the rest which makes all of this pure speculation.

Hobbs is the one I feel strongest about. A 4:01.7 mile would be very easy for him, and then I do believe he'd be able to come back in 8:34.

I doubt anyone will ever attempt this, so at the end of the day we'll never know.

This is my favorite video to show why German was such a special talent, the smoothest run I've ever seen. There's also that Flotrack Workout Wednesday from his freshman year at OSU where they're doing progressive mile reps on the cross country course and he's absolutely murdering Ryan Vail (5th year senior) on the final rep, taking them through 800 in 2 flat on grass before finishing in like 4:16. Dude was insane! I'm not sure there's ever been a US high schooler who had a better aerobic engine and biomechanical efficiency. He's like Jack Daniels wet dream of a VO2 Max runner who could just crank 1500/3k/5k races like he was jogging.

First of all , no one said easily for Webb. But anyone rhat thinks he would not have run under 8:30 for two mikes has no idea how to observe history or the sport.

webb ran 8:45 crushing sub four minute HS guy Brannen when he barely broke 4 at the Armory

he was almost 6 seconds fitter in his 3:53.x

he surely would have beaten every HS’er ever at two miles. I know no one other than you that thinks otherwise. Sorry.

but keep at it, maybe your dearest friends believe you?

Regarding Mt Sac

Newbury Park actually hasn't taken good attempts at the course due to the philosophy's of their training and prep for peaking. They are looking to win at States and Nationals, so they don't want to burn themselves going all out at Sectionals. They do not like the course either. (from Sean Brosnan in the GO vs NP 2019 videos)

They basically did a workout at 2021 and 2022 prelims and finals and were just pacing teammates for experience or better times.

I think they could have beaten that specific record even though they failed at the State course because that Fernandez time was so much better

You are the other guy way off on Webb

he ran 8:45 on flat track that today would be considered actually slower than sh-t compared to speedways of today

beat a sub 4:00 miler by 14 seconds all in the last 1200 or so. At the Armory back then he is under 8:40 with same oevel of effort

in a set up dragged along race ? Under 8:38 snd i am a guy who gives away nothing .. not to anyone except in this instance. Check out his indoor same meet triple , he was surely strong enough. He also nlew himself out running a three times a mile workout that was legendary prior to FL

Many back in 2000? XC .. thought it crushed him for dealing with Ritz, i said many, obviously not all . Ritz was the gold standard for HS Xc in that window of years, tough for anyone all time to beat him, i would never have bet agaisnt him against anyone .. ever. Go look at his Mich State mark on that course. Look at the list.

Whats 45 minus (6 times 2)? Thats being generous, he was a more speed based runner and performances fluctuate given the circumstances.

i can’t believe people still say webb could have run 8:30 or lower. no chance. probably mid 8:30s with todays tech.

webb was a speed guy. nearest thing to a modern day jim ryun. he ran 1:47 solo (maybe negative split? not too sure) at the virginia state meet, but he absolutely could have taken the national record in the 800 if he focused on it. truthfully i think he had the potential to hit 1:45 high. certainly would have with todays tech.

i don’t think this is a crazy thing to say either. look at guys from the UK like brurgin, or all those polish juniors and high school aged guys running 1:44/1:45 at the same age. with that context is it that crazy to say someone like webb could have run 1:45? i don’t think so. also, because of what i just explained, i still believe 1:46.45 is a weaker mark than it should be compared to the rest of the US HS records.

Webb was a speed guy who would have won Footlocker many years, and who did run 8:45.19, full two miles, indoor, by himself, in his only serious (maybe only?) 2mi race as a senior. That's already 8:42 flat for 3200 that he did run. On the right day he could have made a serious run at Jeff Nelson's then-record of 8:36y, but it would have had to be a day and a situation like his 3:53. (Though adults don't run the distance much, he and Ritz ended up with almost the same lifetime two-mile PR, 8:11.x -- Webb was actually a fraction faster.)

German ran 8:34 at outdoor nats completely solo. In the heat and humidity on North Carolina. Kid was nuts. He had an awesome ability to solo really fast times with no help. He ran his 3:55 indoor world junior record totally solo as well.

German seemed to have the most amazing innate sense of pace. His CA state 1600 was basically a workout of 8x 200 in 30 low- 29 high with 0 seconds rest. Poor Mac Flleet thought he could hang with him for a bit and paid the price, finishing a distant 3rd after being 2nd the year before as a sophomore.

German is currently only 32, still young enough for a triumphant comeback. Fingers crossed!

Worth noting, it seems a lot of the spectacle around GF has to do with people misremembering details, intentionally or not. I've heard claims it was very hot for his Woodward Park record, when the daily high that day was ~63-64. A YouTube video from the time of the meet says he had 2.5 hours of rest, not 1.

Obviously still an utterly insane achievement, but I think it becomes a little more doable for a handful of other historical greats when properly contextualized.

This, however, is true. Amazing to see. Every 200 seems to be within 0.5 seconds of 30

It was super windy that day in NC and German won by 12 seconds. German essentially had no competition all track season. You have to also remember German wasn’t chasing times all season. Whereas for the NP, every race was some time trial set up affair.

German had monster meets for like 4 out or 6 weeks at his CIF meets. I think the week before he ran his 4:00 / 8:34 and he ran 4:07 / 8:45 and maybe a 1:55. Before that like a 4:10/8:55 in training shoes.

German didn’t run a professional race like all of the others when they set their PRs. Had he, no doubt in mind he would’ve run 8:27 or something.

German may have possibly been the biggest distance running talent we have ever seen but his body couldn’t hold up. He was hurt a lot of his first 3 years of HS before his senior year.

In the fall of his freshman year of college, 2 months after his 18th birthday, he was in 3rd place in NCAA XC behind Rupp & McDougal before hurting his achilles and dropping out around 8k.

He took time off and came back with that 3:55 solo at 18 years 4 months winning by 10 seconds. A few weeks after that, he ran 7:47 with a 4:02 last 1600m.

He got hurt again. Was in a boot for 3 weeks and then won USA Jr XC and finished 11th at Worlds.

He ran 13:31 fresh off injury and WJXC.

Won NCAA 1500m in 3:39.0 with a 55.0 close leading the entire way.

Here’s a funny story about GF running a half marathon:

I had the opportunity to run with German in the above half marathon. It was at the Davis Stampede in February, and I was running as a tune up for the LA Marathon the following month. My goal was to win the race, and run at or slightly below goal Marathon pace (1:11-1:12). I went out slow, and at two miles into the race was 30-40 seconds behind the leaders. I decided it was time to move and 1:12 wasn't going to win, so I dropped my pace from 5:35 to about 5:15 pace. On my way up to the leaders, I passed a duo of young high school runners, and one of them (Fernandez) ended up latching on to me at around 2-1/2 miles.
At the four mile mark, we had just clocked a 5:17 or so, and he asks me what pace I'm trying to run. I said "5:20's", and when I asked him, he replied with "6 minute pace". I figured I'd drop him in another mile or two, and I'd continue on up to the leaders. Around the 6 mile I took notice of this kid's form and toughness, and thought to myself "I have no idea who this kid is, but he's for real and may hang with me for the whole race."

We continued running between 5:13-5:20 pace for the next several miles. At a couple different points he fell off by about 5 meters, but quickly surged back up on my shoulder. We managed to catch second place by mile 8, but still trailed the leader by a steady 15 seconds at the 9 mile. I surged hard at 9, with Fernandez on my shoulder, and we managed to catch the leader just after the 11 mile mark. It should be noted that as we passed by the 11 mile marker, I was asked by Fernandez how long the race was.

From there it was a three man race all the way into the last quarter mile, with German powering away from myself and the 3rd place finisher, and a mere 3 seconds separating the three of us. I was happy to PR after the race, but a little shocked because I had just lost to a 16 year old. I wondered how many High Schoolers in the country could run that fast for a half marathon right now? Ten? Five? All I could do was tip my hat and realize that I had just been beaten by someone great. I really think if I had been running 1:07 pace that he would have run a 1:07 and out-kicked me.
It was only afterwards that I found out he was a state champion as a Soph. etc. At least now I can say I lost to the California XC record holder at Woodward

--Alex Cardiasmenos

I remember that workout video! Our team and coach was so fired up by that video that the next week we did the same workout they did, though at our much slower paces because we were not on that Oklahoma State team’s level by any means lol. If I’m remembering right they had Vail and German start on the second repeat so their second-to-last one was the rest of the team’s last (so the others would try to push avail and German a bit), then they had those two run their last repeat on their own. We even imitated that aspect by having our top two guys do that. Again, much much slower than the OSU guys but that sort of shows what a big splash German and Co. we’re making among the running community at the time, for those who weren’t around for their era. We all thought Olympic gold was in German’s future. Damned injuries, man.

Best Flotrack WOW of all time. And yes you're right, Vail and Fernandez joined the rest of the squad when they had already ratcheted down the pace over a few reps and then did the last one (or maybe two) as a duo. Shame it's locked behind a Flo paywall now but at least we still have that killer soundtrack for free! Let It Go - TV/TV

The fact that this is even a conversation, or a question is ridiculous. German 100%