Is Nuguse the #1 miler in the world right now?

L\'innoculateur wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

It’s not just the times. He blew away Hoare and Katir and others. True, they are not Jakob, but it’s not like Nuguse was simply time trialing. He beat quality competition very convincingly. Does he beat Jakob when it counts, no certainly no guarantee, but this notion that Jakob is going to “destroy” him, no, you’ve not been paying attention.

Katir was at one week of a historic 3000m and as I seen in the race Neguse exploited Katir going too early to out-kick him. We see a lot of scenarios like this in the mile.

If you care of what say some Moroccan I have gotten you this translated:

1) Peace, mercy and blessings of God be upon you... A rising talent to control this distance... Greetings

2) Great runner and promising future

3) He looks a little like Saeed Aouita in the way he runs, and he certainly has a future, God willing

4) It has the specifications of the 1500.

5) An Ethiopian of origin? .. expected anything, but it is impossible for Katir to break El Guerrouj's record .. neither him nor Jacob, but this American expected anything from him..

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Iouiou wrote:

OK I stand corrected. But nonetheless Gregorek ran 3:49i without the benefit of the super spikes which ostensibly propelled Yared. Galen ran 3:50.92i without the super spikes. Galen was not never a great miler. The indoor times, especially with super spikes, are to be taken with a grain of salt now. This is like recess or play time for professional runners. Nothing important is happening other than training. The adults know this. So Yared’s improvement is noteworthy but his standing among the big boys is uncertain.

Gregorek ran 3:49.98. More 3:50 than 3:49, which I love how most posters neglect. I don't understand why talking about races run 2.5-3.5 seconds slower on a faster track in perfect time trials is too relevant. Yes, Yared has superspikes like everyone else but he demolished Oli Hoare (3:30/3:47PB) and Neil Gourley (3:32 in Birmingham) with a 25-second last lap in a race that bogged down for the 3rd quarter. It was more the nature of the finish and the competition than the time. He backed it up by blowing Katir away despite going out too hard.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Iouiou wrote:

OK I stand corrected. But nonetheless Gregorek ran 3:49i without the benefit of the super spikes which ostensibly propelled Yared. Galen ran 3:50.92i without the super spikes. Galen was not never a great miler. The indoor times, especially with super spikes, are to be taken with a grain of salt now. This is like recess or play time for professional runners. Nothing important is happening other than training. The adults know this. So Yared’s improvement is noteworthy but his standing among the big boys is uncertain.

Who exactly are “the big boys?” Hoare had a strong season last year and he’s pretty fit and sharp this winter and Nuguse crushed him. Katir ran a wr time the week before in the 3000 and a smart race in the 1500 in Madrid, and still Nuguse beat him handily. He’ll have his chance head to head against Kipsang, Tim and Jakob eventually, but he’s not out there beating chumps, he’s beating world class milers.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Iouiou wrote:

OK I stand corrected. But nonetheless Gregorek ran 3:49i without the benefit of the super spikes which ostensibly propelled Yared. Galen ran 3:50.92i without the super spikes. Galen was not never a great miler. The indoor times, especially with super spikes, are to be taken with a grain of salt now. This is like recess or play time for professional runners. Nothing important is happening other than training. The adults know this. So Yared’s improvement is noteworthy but his standing among the big boys is uncertain.

Who exactly are “the big boys?” Hoare had a strong season last year and he’s pretty fit and sharp this winter and Nuguse crushed him. Katir ran a wr time the week before in the 3000 and a smart race in the 1500 in Madrid, and still Nuguse beat him handily. He’ll have his chance head to head against Kipsang, Tim and Jakob eventually, but he’s not out there beating chumps, he’s beating world class milers.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Iouiou wrote:

I had already made explicit that Gregorek ran 3:49.98 so your insistence on comporting yourself as a know it all is unbecoming. As I said the adults are not too concerned about indoor track. Gregorek, Prakel, Rupp, Kejelcha etc ran very good miles indoors but they are/were all nowhere to be found when the adults enter the “room” in the outdoor competitions. Maybe Nuguse is the best miler in the world on February 26, 2023 BUT we will never know the answer as to whether he is.

Oh yeah Kejelcha was nowhere to be found when he almost won the outdoor 10,000m title vs. Cheptegei in 2017 after that indoor campaign. In 2013, Rupp got 4th and 8th in the 10K and 5K respectively. Hardly "nowhere to be found."

In general if your point in this thread was to say that past performance doesn't guarantee future success that's about the only thing you accomplished in doing.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Iouiou wrote:

If you were more cognitively gifted, you might have been able to deduce that this discussion is only germane to the 1500m/mile distance, and subsequently the performances of Rupp and Kejelcha at those distances outdoors. I really am surprised that I need to walk you through this as the subject of the thread is whether Yared is the best miler in the world, not whether he is a promising prospect period, as he does look to have great 3000m potential for sure. Your intellectual dishonesty has made me lose any respect I had for you.

Just give it up man. You started out the thread with asserting that Nuguse ran his 3:47.3 at BU, which anyone with a brain knows wasn't true. You likened it to Johnny Gregorek who ran his at BU in a pure time trial with perfect splits getting beat by almost 3 seconds. There is absolutely no similarity in the runs besides being PBs for American runners on domestic indoor tracks. Rich of you then to be talking about cognitive gifts when you couldn't tell the difference between BU and the Armory.

Then you moved the goalposts from saying that indoor doesn't matter for the big boys and all this stuff. When I called out how silly that is for 2 of your examples, you go to the technicality that results over a mile outdoors don't count as part of the conversation despite calling out Rupp and Kejelcha who focused on the 10K distance outdoors. That is intellectual dishonesty from you.

Everyone knows that nothing is guaranteed for Nuguse outdoors, but he has run three excellent indoor performances against good competition in 2 of them. He was on a nice win streak outdoors last year, too.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Iouiou wrote:

“Just give it up man.” Actually many of us who are much smarter than you have intellectual interests way beyond track so we don’t always know where every race is held. Track is interesting at times but often boring to intelligent people. It should have been obvious that when I mentioned Prakel, Gregorek, Kejelcha and Rupp that I was referring to an apple and apple comparison of their indoor and outdoor 1500/mile performances and if you do that you can see that Kejelcha was never the best miler in the world or if he was for a few weeks it is doesn’t mean much. That is the part that relates to Nuguse. Your veneer of politeness is easily cracked and therefore palpably phony.

Smart people are always constantly bragging about how smart they are, that's typical behavior.

This is a track message board, if you don't know where the Millrose Games are held I'd say your level of fandom is pretty low. This is like a football fan thinking the Rose Bowl is in San Francisco. But maybe you're a big art or film guy or into your collection of leather-bound books and don't have time to watch Nuguse race at Millrose for the whole 4 minutes it took. Kejelcha is the only guy you brought up who even ran a time that would put them in the top 10 of a given year (indoor and out). Nobody expected him to be the "best miler in the world" not because he did it indoors, but because Tim Cheruiyot ran 3:28.4 the year prior and had dominated the circuit. Not to mention Kejelcha was a 5K/10K guy, who predictably ran his usual events at a high level in 2019 instead of dropping down to the 1500.