More Lauren Fleshman

It was a great article- the sort our sport doesn't get too often. Actually, we don't get really anything in papers like The WSJ aside from the druggie stuff!

Lauren Fleshman is not a researcher nor a sports sociologist. She has a Lexis Nexis and pubmed accounts and it’s spouting percentages. Her stans and sycophants eat this up but she is not qualified to write this book at the level she thinks she wrote this book. She can have her opinion and as successful female ex pro runner but beyond that she is reaching.

Agree. I am a woman. If you are a coach, you need to understand the physiology of the people you are coaching. If you coach women, you must understand some basics of female physiology, and how it differs from men ("the default"). I think it's a cop out disguised as feminism to suggest that male coaches shouldn't discuss issues related to female physiology.

It is often assumed that women have some inherent wisdom about female physiology. This is not correct. I know my experience of being a woman, but that is very different from understanding the science behind it. I was not born with magic voodoo woman wisdom. I learned about female physiology from textbooks and scientific articles. Male coaches can do this as well. Even doing 10 minutes of reading on Wikipedia would be massive for a lot of folks.

I appreciate any male coach who has taken the effort to educate themselves on the physiology of female athletes. Coaches are not doctors, and aren't expected to be all-knowing. They should however know enough to spot a problem and refer you to one. This is similar to injury issues... a coach is not a physiotherapist, but does need to know enough about running injuries to give good advice in their domain.

When you are coaching, medical stuff is going to come up because it impacts an athlete's ability to train and race. Sometimes as a coach, you'll be the first person they trust with it. You need to be able to give them the right advice. Often that advice is "go see a doctor." If you don't know what things could be serious problems, you may not give that advice.

Thank GOD someone corrected OP's ridiculous misspelling of her name in the subject line.

I really hope to read the book soon and invite her on the podcast. She's bright and has a lot to talk about.

A few comments about the article.

Not remotely close to being true. Did former WR holder
Dong Yanmei (14:29 pb, Fleshman's pb is 14:58) ever compete in the Olympics?

Id like to know if that was true then and if it's true now. If anything, I think women might make more now. New Balance in the US sponsors almost exclusively attractive women. There arent' that many female sports stars so track runners might do well.

I think one problem mgiht be that the gap between best in the world and best in the NCAA is larger for the women than the men. The very best women are bigger outliers in my mind.

That and at the very top, there is still something to be said about being "The best human in history to do something." As much as we'd love to see a woman run 1:59:40, it's never going to happen.

I think this is a classic case of "correlation doesn't imply causation". Yes, there are a number of HS / teen phenoms, who aren't great as runners in their 20s. But I think most of them would likely have not been great no matter what happened- whether it was Claudia Lane, Mary Cain etc. I think their post-puberty bodies naturally aren't real suited for running as one of the best in the world. Sure, tryign to stop that natural process only makes it worse but I'm not sure their brittle bones are the cause. They have brittle bones as their bodies were changing naturally to make them slower but able to give birht and they tried to stop that process.

She doesn't want to exclude trans athletes - neither do I. In an ideal world, there would be one sports league and women would make tens of millions in the NFL. But that's not reality. Her whole book sounds like it's devastating to those who argue a trans woman should be allowed to compete. it's my understanding she only briefly only talks about it in the book but it seems like reporters keep asking her about it. Why in God's name is is controversial to state that female puberty is not great for women's athletics prospects?

As every yard sign here in Baltimore says, "Science is real."

Rojo, are men and women paid the same at LetsRun?

You completely read her thoughts on that wrong. She DOES think male coaches should be able/prepared to talk about menstruation with their female athletes.

By your logic, nobody could write this book. Because a doctor with the needed level of expertise in the medical aspects of this issue would not have the needed experience as a female pro athlete. The psychologist who is "qualified" sadly has no experience as an agent working he way through pro contracts. The agent has no medical knowledge. The pro runner, in most cases, lacks something. By your logic the book can't really be written, now can it?

Luckily, you are wrong on this one. On Friday, she spoke to a packed house at Powell's Bookstore (the largest bookstore on the west coast). There isn't a single copy of her book left, which is saying a lot if you know Powell's. So people do think breaking youth records, going to Stanford, being married to a male pro athlete (for perspective), being a national champion, being a competent researcher, having tons of personal experience, and navigating all of this as a biological (not trans) woman, gives her a unique perspective.

Those L.A. chicks thing they own the Sport.

I agree with all you’ve said. i would add another reason for male (and females) to learn more about the menstrual cycle is you can use it to maximize training. Since I started sharing my cycle info with my coach we’ve been able to better plan my training so my harder training weeks align with certain parts of my cycle. I’m getting better results, fewer injuries and less frustration. I will never again work with a coach that’s doesn’t understand women aren’t just a slower versions of men. Where it gets a little more complex is every woman is different. For some, menstrual cycles have no impact; for others, it’s more significant.

Your post made a lot of good points and I agree that the post-puberty body of a lot of runners (including some boys/men) is not as suited to running as their "scrawnier" versions of themselves. I know guys who just got too big to really be marathon runners, for example. "Wanting it" and "trying harder" wasn't going to turn their bodies into Kipchoge's.

But "brittle bones" is not one of the normal side-effects of puberty in girls. If girls go through a normal puberty, they don't get as many stress fractures. What Fleshman is referring to is when girls intentionally halt puberty through disordered eating and extreme working out. That is what leads to later stress fractures and early retirement for a lot of female college athletes, not the normal fact of becoming women.

I don’t know that they intentionally halt pubert, although some probably inadvertently do so. according to the article below, low bone density affects males as well

velonews.com

Dutch study: Two thirds of pro riders have poor bone health

sadhbhoshea

Research by a Dutch university has shown a high prevalence of low bone density in pro riders, putting them at risk of conditions such as osteoporosis.

Link:www.velonews.com/news/dutch-study-two-...

Wait. Doesn't LF always claim that she created her nasty little PickyBars by researching nutrition for her husband. What right does a woman have messing with the metabolism of a man? She should be ashamed for her double standard.

Victimhood or Road Map To Success?

It seems Lauren is saying:

-Going to extremes for professional athletic success has health risks and she took those risks.

-Women have challenges in achieving athletic success, that are unique to women. While those challenges may not be fair, she took them head on and succeeded anyways.

-Despite these risks and obstacles she managed to be extremely high achieving in her athletic and post-athletic careers (selling $12 million business startup before the age of 40).

Some read the article and view it as complaining or victimhood. I don't see it that way at all. To me, it reads more like a roadmap to success, with words of wisdom for those that choose to follow in her path.

So shut up and run because we pay you? Disgusting people like you are why we need women to speak out

It is feminism which does not promote any good for women.