I think I much prefer the option of beign labelled sore-loser vs fake. So many interviews are fake.
I can't wait for the 2023 World 1500 final. Ingebrigtsen seems unbeatable at 5000 but at 1500? I have no idea and the beauty of it is none of the regular season DL meets will really matter. The only time he'll tactically have to try to win a big one is when it counts the most.
If I was him, I'd be happy to let people lead. I'd just try to run 56 laps like a metronome.
Jakob is strong and getting stronger. He races and races and races, he runs xc! In an era where many of the sport’s biggest stars are awol, this guy is out there competing seemingly every week. I don’t think you can overestimate how tough that makes you to beat. He’s really the epitome of a “beast.” I think he can probably run from the front and still run a 3:28. Nobody is going to be able deal with that. Sure, if somebody like Kipsang wants to do the work, Jakob should let him, but I think he’s entering a performance territory where it simply is not going to matter in 2023 or 2024 barring injury or illness. He just needs to get on the rail, lock in and run fast and he’s going to win. He can run these global 1500 finals like the kid in HS in a conference championship who has a pr 5s clear of the field. Just run and win. Tactics only matter when people are of near equal level.
Jakobs amazing and I’m not gonna debate that, but I think if Jake Wightman shows up to worlds in 3:28/1:43 shape that will still be really hard for Jakob to beat in a tactical race. Sort of an El Guerrouj/Noah Ngeny type situation
I don't see any controversy anywhere. Wightman needed a perfect storm to win, and he got it: Ingebrigtsen had to use up energy to fend off two surges in the last 600, then a lane opened for Wightman to fly through. I'm not sure Ingebrigtsen could have done anything differently, but he is right that he should win that race most of the time.
I don't see any controversy anywhere. Wightman needed a perfect storm to win, and he got it: Ingebrigtsen had to use up energy to fend off two surges in the last 600, then a lane opened for Wightman to fly through. I'm not sure Ingebrigtsen could have done anything differently, but he is right that he should win that race most of the time.
You get it but you don't want to admit it. J I did the best he could at most recent 1500m W C but he still lost. J I is Mike Tyson post-December, 1989 Buster Douglas fight but J I fanboys don't want to see the truth. Mike Tyson post-December, 1989 fight went on to win many fights but no one was afraid of Mike Tyson post-December, 1989. You said it. J I did all he could do and still lost W C 1500m final. No elite 1500m runner is afraid of J I.
One of Vince Lombardi’s most famous quotes is, “show me a good loser and I will show you a loser.” Unfortunately, his most famous quotes like, “winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing” were edited. Most are unfamiliar with the second half of his loser quote that reads, “But show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you someone who will always be a winner.”
By comparison, we can note the difference in attitude shown by Bannister and Landy after the "Miracle Mile" in Vancouver '54. The winner and the loser paid tribute to each other and made no mention of the ailments each had earlier incurred that might have affected the outcome. We live in different times.
I put this quote in another thread. It’s from Jakob after the wc 5000.
“My race plan?” he said before pausing to ponder the question. “I just wanted to win. And I wanted to win by as much as possible. I didn’t want a sprint finish, because then some people would have said that it was a coincidence or a tactical race. But today was not a tactical race. I just won it. I was the better runner.” (NYT, 7/24/22)
Is this arrogant or disrespectful? Does he have to kiss up or make his competitors feel good? No, it’s just the truth. He’s better than the competition nearly always and when he’s not, it’s probably more what he did wrong than what they did right. On his best day, he’s not losing in the 1500 or the 5000 to anybody.
What is a best day? Jakob WAS, more than likely, on his best day. He was fit. He was ready. There was nothing stopping him. The truth is that he has slow finishing speed. He has to run the kick out of his competition by keeping the race wound up. I'm sure he's smart enough to know this. The fact that he didn't might be just as much a tactical error as it is arrogance. It could also be that he didn't have the goods. It's ok for him to get beaten. Just as they say in football: "Any given Sunday, any team can beat another." I think he just got beaten. It's like throwing your hands up before the finish line and another comes in a squeaks by for the win. People aren't robots. Sometimes they deserve to lose. Jakob deserved his loss and should acknowledge that Wightman ran a hell of a race.
I like Jake (cant help it being a Brit), but hat Wightman knew he would have a hard time repeating his Eugene performance is reflected in the rest of his season. Doesn't race the 1500m at Europeans, doesn't race vs Jakob in Lausanne, meaning he can't qualify to race Jakob in Zurich. That's three opportunities to stamp his authority on the discipline and really rattle Jakob and instead he messes about vs Garcia, Arop, and Korir in the 800
What is a best day? Jakob WAS, more than likely, on his best day. He was fit. He was ready. There was nothing stopping him. The truth is that he has slow finishing speed. He has to run the kick out of his competition by keeping the race wound up. I'm sure he's smart enough to know this. The fact that he didn't might be just as much a tactical error as it is arrogance. It could also be that he didn't have the goods. It's ok for him to get beaten. Just as they say in football: "Any given Sunday, any team can beat another." I think he just got beaten. It's like throwing your hands up before the finish line and another comes in a squeaks by for the win. People aren't robots. Sometimes they deserve to lose. Jakob deserved his loss and should acknowledge that Wightman ran a hell of a race.
Best day means being fit and ready (of course he was based on the 5000 a few days later), but it also means positioning yourself, not wasting energy or breaking trail, starting to close at the right time, etc. In that race, for whatever reason, Jakob flubbed those elements just enough AND Wightman did everything just right. No doubt the field comprises super elite pros and something like 4-6 of them could actually win if things break just right for them as they did for Jake. However, Jakob against the entire field, I think Jakob wins 90% of the time. Do you disagree? Wightman himself wins that race once every 10-20 times it’s run, something like that. That’s domination at this level of distance running. I only see the gap widening this year and next, not narrowing, but ok, let’s see.
I like Jake (cant help it being a Brit), but hat Wightman knew he would have a hard time repeating his Eugene performance is reflected in the rest of his season. Doesn't race the 1500m at Europeans, doesn't race vs Jakob in Lausanne, meaning he can't qualify to race Jakob in Zurich. That's three opportunities to stamp his authority on the discipline and really rattle Jakob and instead he messes about vs Garcia, Arop, and Korir in the 800
Pretty obvious case of ducking to me.
Wrong. It was not J W's fault W C Athletics was in U.S. this past summer. Look back at Olympics held in U.S. In the summer before Am. football. It was not J W's fault W C Athletics we're not held in October as was the case in 2019. The idea is to peak for Olympics or peak for W C. All meets held after Olympics in calendar year are irrelevant. Same for W C. Fifteen-hundred meter athletes, summer 2021 were supposed to peak for W C. That's what J W did.
Best day means being fit and ready (of course he was based on the 5000 a few days later), but it also means positioning yourself, not wasting energy or breaking trail, starting to close at the right time, etc. In that race, for whatever reason, Jakob flubbed those elements just enough AND Wightman did everything just right. No doubt the field comprises super elite pros and something like 4-6 of them could actually win if things break just right for them as they did for Jake. However, Jakob against the entire field, I think Jakob wins 90% of the time. Do you disagree? Wightman himself wins that race once every 10-20 times it’s run, something like that. That’s domination at this level of distance running. I only see the gap widening this year and next, not narrowing, but ok, let’s see.
I get what you're saying. And it might be true that Jakob wins more often than not. But he does lose. and he loses with a certain amount of regularity, which means he's beatable. No one is entitled to win. If everyone had a perfect day with all that stuff you mentioned, I say Jakob gets beaten. Kipsang has shown himself capable of doing that regularly. In fact, Was it Jakob or his dad that said Jakob would never lose another 1500 race and he promptly went out and lost the next race he was in. If memory serves, I think that was following the last Olympics. Anyway, them main point of my comment is that no runner can flawlessly put together race after race of superior performance no matter how good they are and control the race circumstance to guarantee a win. Ingebrigtsen will lose again. It's the way it goes.
I get what you're saying. And it might be true that Jakob wins more often than not. But he does lose. and he loses with a certain amount of regularity, which means he's beatable. No one is entitled to win. If everyone had a perfect day with all that stuff you mentioned, I say Jakob gets beaten. Kipsang has shown himself capable of doing that regularly. In fact, Was it Jakob or his dad that said Jakob would never lose another 1500 race and he promptly went out and lost the next race he was in. If memory serves, I think that was following the last Olympics. Anyway, them main point of my comment is that no runner can flawlessly put together race after race of superior performance no matter how good they are and control the race circumstance to guarantee a win. Ingebrigtsen will lose again. It's the way it goes.
Well, to be fair and accurate, Gjert said Jakob would never lose to Tim again, though he did this too. I’m not saying Jakob can’t lose, just that he’s the favorite by a long way against the ENTIRE field every time out. Dominant favorites do lose sometimes, like Crouser just lost to Kocacs and Mondo lost to Nilsen and Kipchoge to….no wait, that doesn’t happen. Anyway, every time Jakob lines up on the track, it’s his race to win or lose. The others are just hoping for the crumbs that fall off his table.
Best day means being fit and ready (of course he was based on the 5000 a few days later), but it also means positioning yourself, not wasting energy or breaking trail, starting to close at the right time, etc. In that race, for whatever reason, Jakob flubbed those elements just enough AND Wightman did everything just right. No doubt the field comprises super elite pros and something like 4-6 of them could actually win if things break just right for them as they did for Jake. However, Jakob against the entire field, I think Jakob wins 90% of the time. Do you disagree? Wightman himself wins that race once every 10-20 times it’s run, something like that. That’s domination at this level of distance running. I only see the gap widening this year and next, not narrowing, but ok, let’s see.
I get what you're saying. And it might be true that Jakob wins more often than not. But he does lose. and he loses with a certain amount of regularity, which means he's beatable. No one is entitled to win. If everyone had a perfect day with all that stuff you mentioned, I say Jakob gets beaten. Kipsang has shown himself capable of doing that regularly. In fact, Was it Jakob or his dad that said Jakob would never lose another 1500 race and he promptly went out and lost the next race he was in. If memory serves, I think that was following the last Olympics. Anyway, them main point of my comment is that no runner can flawlessly put together race after race of superior performance no matter how good they are and control the race circumstance to guarantee a win. Ingebrigtsen will lose again. It's the way it goes.
Yeah, honestly, without pacers I’d say Jakob has a 60% chance of winning and the field about 40%. Again, Jakob is the best miler in the field, but doesn’t have the unbeatable turn of pace in a championship race prime Coe or Morceli did. Guys like Wightman, Kerr, Hoare, and Cheryuit can all catch him on the right day in a 3:29-3:31 type race.
Although I think if Jakob runs under 3:29 like in Tokyo he’ll win 90% of the time. I believe Jakob’s currently a 3:27/12:40-45 guy in perfect races. Essentially, close to unbeatable in 1500m time trials and championship 5ks, but likely vulnerable in championship 1500ms and someone in sub 12:40 shape in a fast 5k
J I can run (140 to 150) miles per week. J I can wow the majority of let'srun readers with his great (800 to 2000)m repeats. Give him a golf clap. J I has no chance winning international 1500m races with 1200m split 3 minutes or slower. No secret. J I knows it. J I in 1500m reminds me of Mike Tyson circa December, 1989. The mystique is gone. No one is afraid of J I at 1500m, especially sub-1:45 800m guys.
🤣These “sub 1:45 guys” are going to cough up a lung trying to keep up with him. Doesn’t matter if your fast if you are totally gassed at the end.
As a limited number of people on this board can attest to (those criticizing Jakob), when one's training and racing come together and you've achieved the feeling of "invincibility" there is no greater feeling as an athlete, especially at the elite level. To toe the line and have the confidence that your race plan is simply to "Run Away" from the field and think "Catch me if you can", you're now at the next level. Jakob is NOT a sore loser, he simply has set a standard for himself that few if any runners at this time can match. He's a "sore loser" with himself, not JW or any other competitor. Self centered? self serving? or selfish?, call it what you will, it is a necessary trait to have in order to be the BEST, it's not a personal attack on anyone.
I like Jake (cant help it being a Brit), but hat Wightman knew he would have a hard time repeating his Eugene performance is reflected in the rest of his season. Doesn't race the 1500m at Europeans, doesn't race vs Jakob in Lausanne, meaning he can't qualify to race Jakob in Zurich. That's three opportunities to stamp his authority on the discipline and really rattle Jakob and instead he messes about vs Garcia, Arop, and Korir in the 800
Pretty obvious case of ducking to me.
No, he spelled out his plan for the season from the start. He didn't change anything.
Yeah, honestly, without pacers I’d say Jakob has a 60% chance of winning and the field about 40%. Again, Jakob is the best miler in the field, but doesn’t have the unbeatable turn of pace in a championship race prime Coe or Morceli did. Guys like Wightman, Kerr, Hoare, and Cheryuit can all catch him on the right day in a 3:29-3:31 type race.
Although I think if Jakob runs under 3:29 like in Tokyo he’ll win 90% of the time. I believe Jakob’s currently a 3:27/12:40-45 guy in perfect races. Essentially, close to unbeatable in 1500m time trials and championship 5ks, but likely vulnerable in championship 1500ms and someone in sub 12:40 shape in a fast 5k
Ok, we are just debating the degree of dominance. Hoare didn’t even make the final, Kerr was nowhere and Tim is old and getting older fast. Katir, Garcia, race of their lives. Kipsang, was nowhere, dead legs. Hocker and Teare, Tefera, nope not even in the race. Lightening struck for Jake. Very unlikely to happen again. I’d bet my last $ on Jakob every time, and I think this will be even more true in 23/24.
I put this quote in another thread. It’s from Jakob after the wc 5000.
“My race plan?” he said before pausing to ponder the question. “I just wanted to win. And I wanted to win by as much as possible. I didn’t want a sprint finish, because then some people would have said that it was a coincidence or a tactical race. But today was not a tactical race. I just won it. I was the better runner.” (NYT, 7/24/22)
Is this arrogant or disrespectful? Does he have to kiss up or make his competitors feel good? No, it’s just the truth. He’s better than the competition nearly always and when he’s not, it’s probably more what he did wrong than what they did right. On his best day, he’s not losing in the 1500 or the 5000 to anybody.
It is the opposite actually. In the 1500, his success seems very dependent upon what the competition does and how the race plays out. He won the Olympic 1500 but lost the WC 1500 not because he was at his best for one and not the other (he probably would have won both if they were time trials), but because of what everyone else did in the race. The Olympic race played out exactly the way he wanted it to; the WCs did not.
I don't really care what the guy says, but let's not pretend he dominated the 1500 the past two years the way Faith Kipyegon did. She wins any 1500 on her best day, because she could have won virtually any type of final. Jakob could not, as he demonstrated.
And I don't think Wightman meant it as an insult, he was just speaking imprecisely.
I wish more athletes gave interviews like Jakob, but scrutinising every word (as in this instance) isn't going to incentivise anyone to do so.
P.S. It's worth noting that although English is Jakob's second language, he seemingly speaks it better than most runners who are native English speakers.
He doesn't say "like" every second word, doesn't use cliches as crutches and he doesn't speak in circles.