Guy runs a 3:46 marathon and claims to have done it off of no training. Is he lying, or is he just really talented?

I live in Australia, bud. We're not all morbidly obese like you guys.

I know at least half a dozen people in their late 20s/early 30s (a couple of guys I went to high school with, another couple of rowers and some others that play team sports in winter, but just hit the gym in summer) who will do the occasional run and post it to strava, and that's the pace they run.

And those are just the people I know. It's not that uncommon for me to get passed on an easy run by someone - who I've never seen at any race in the area - doing sub-4:30/km pace. Sometimes it'll even be a female 'exercisist'.

I didn't say every person, and I sure as hell didn't mention a percentage. But knowing a few people and seeing it happen a few times a year - well that qualifies as 'often' to me.

P.S. a 43:30 5k isn't going to put you in the top 10% of anything.

It was an obvious typo, I meant a 43:30 10K. The rest of my post still stands.

There are usually thousands of runners who show up to a 5K or 10K. Do you recognize all of them? Just because you get passed by someone going 4:30/km pace whom you don't recognize doesn't mean that person is a non-runner. And even if those people really were non-runners, do you actually follow them and verify that they're maintaining that pace for an hour? And this doesn't account for former high school and college runners who still run to keep in shape but are no longer interested in racing.

I just pulled up some stats. Less than 10% of Australian boys age 15-17 can run a 5:50 1600, and those who can are almost certainly either runners or people involved in a running-intensive sport:

It's far easier to run a single 5:50 mile than to maintain 7:00/mile pace for an hour. And yet you claim to often see non-runners do the latter when they're not even racing. Seems pretty suspect to me.

sub 2:40 on 16 miles per week?

I ran a 3:45 at Boston after 6 months of averaging between 0 and 5 miles per WEEK. I was focusing on my career, but I had already registered for Boston and had never raced it before so I decided to still do it. It was a humbling experience. I started in the coral based on my qualifying time and hit the wall at mile 13. Had to walk/jog the rest of the way. I’m now a 2:17 marathon runner.

Definitely possible. I have a friend who has made it his personal goal to run a Marathon once a month. He' s male, 27yo, and he does literally no running at all other than the monthly Marathon and always finishes between 3:30-4:00 depending on the course.

I'm guessing he has done a marathon in the past or something similar.

I started running in 2020 during the lockdown. Got to sub 20 on about 25 miles a week.

When I then did my first "long run" of 11 miles I felt as sick as a dog afterwards. Felt the same way again when I went up to 15 miles and 17 miles. The thought of doing 26 miles without stopping was unfathomable.

I can now run a 16 minute 5k so have a small amount of talent. There's no way this guy ran a 3:40 marathon without having run something similar in the past.

You keep projecting your Americanisms onto me.

1. No Australian boy aged 15-17 has ever run a 1600m race. We just don't have them, we race the 1500m, so that stat is meaningless.

2. No Australian (excusing those that go to the US on scholarship) is ever a high school or college runner. We don't have Track or XC teams in Australia. In school, there is a one-off, once a year competition for both. Outside of that, running is done through a club, where juniors will often compete against adults.

3. I live in a small city, where there sure as hell aren't thousands of runners turning up to races. Also, if someone's a runner, I tend to know them or I've seen them around at least. There is only one synthetic track in the entire city (there isn't another for 200kms). There are only 4 different parkruns, and I've run all of them on many occasions. I compete in the local XC interclub competition, and run just about every fun run that is put on each year.

4. You seem way too fixated on this, and you should probably just accept that, yes, there are people that can manage 7 min/miles for an hour without training. It isn't all that great of an achievement, to the extent that a number of people in a small city in Australia can achieve it without training. They probably couldn't go much faster in a race, but that's how untrained, 'exercisists' tend to run; 'greyzone'.

this thread seems a bit silly. In the article, the guy indicates that he had an extensive history of endurance training and competition, including half-marathons, half-Ironman races, and long -distance cycling. He also says, although his longest runs in the two months before the marathon were only six miles, he remained physically active, among other things playing a lot of racketball. Under those conditions, a 3:46 marathon should be a stroll in the park. (I've never tried a half-Ironman, but it sounds a lot more taxing than a marathon.)

These kinds of articles about the racing achievements of slow runners seem to reflect a huge shift in the sport over the last several decades. In the U.S., marathons in particular are so different from what they used to be. Back when it took a 2:50 marathon just to qualify for entry in the Boston marathon, a 3:46 was a disastrous aberration -- usually, some guy who was injured or totally bonked but insisted on finishing the race. (I'm excluding the thousands of "bandits," including many college kids, who would show up and run the race without any training.) It was not uncommon in those days for officials to begin disassembling the finish line at a marathon and finally turn off the clock at four hours. These days, marathons in the U.S. are largely big parades of rather overweight and sedentary folks, with average finishing times of something like 4:30. And with the Internet, anyone can get an audience for his or her article about overcoming one thing or another on the heroic path to completing a marathon.

“Running” a marathon off no training is definitely possible. That would be a jog-walk, of course, but well within cutoff. When I sign up for a big race in a remote city, my wife often signs up as well. She says it’s no fun when everyone is running and she’s not. She hardly does any running training, usually less than 3x6 mile loops in 2 months mentioned by this guy. She does tock climbing and lifts though. On race day, she run-walks in 4:30 to 5 hour range, no DNFs. Did this a dozen of times.
Now this guy is a whole hour faster, but he’s a male. As for my spouse I’m positive she has no running talent. She gets injured as soon as she tries to follow any kind of plan, doesn’t enjoy running and doesn’t have the discipline and diligence for consistent mileage.
Skimming through the article I see that this guy has done a sprint triathlon. Not sure if that was long before his marathon or not, but doesn’t look like he is a total stranger to endurance activities.
I guess it’s all about how the ‘running talent’ is defined. For me this looks like something any reasonably fit person could do if they wanted to and does not indicate any talent. It rather demonstrates how un-fit the majority of people are if they have to train for years to get a result like that, or even for a 30+ minute 5K. But maybe the actual zero point of running talent is lower. Why not. That would make me a ‘very talented’ runner myself, even if I barely run the old womens OTQ being a man.

Some people just have it and some don't. That is just life. Some people can train for years and will never be able to BQ. Years ago I read Arutro Barrios ran 17 min 5K in gym class with no prior running. You don't think people like him can waddle 8:30 pace for 26 miles with no training?

He mentions playing basketball and racketball. For all we know the man doesn't own a car and rides a bike 2 hours a day for transportation and doesn't "count" that as training because to him it isn't. There's a lot we don't know. Looking at the photo, he looks like a slim, physically fit guy. In college I knew a former lacrosse player and a current club ultimate frisbee player who raced each other in their first marathon with no specific marathon training and very little running training of any kind beyond what they did for their other hobby sports participation. They ran together for the whole thing and then the frisbee guy outkicked the lacross guy at the end, both in 3:19:xx.

What did Puff Daddy run? I thought he said he wanted to make sure to break Oprah's time.

You guys are so full of crap.

In 2014 a 44 year old Bob Kennedy ran NYC in 3 hours, 26 minutes, 17 seconds using a training plan. Not a great plan, but he followed a training plan.

NONE of you are as talented or have run as fast as BK in his prime.
It's absurd to suggest that most average fit men can run sub 4 off of NO run training.

Kennedy also blew his body up to smaller end of a typical American fatty.

Exactly. The "no running" 3:46 guy had it, while others didn't. That's why he, like Arturo Barrios, can be considered talented.

No mystery. He smoked meth, shot heroin, and lived on the street for a little bit. He'll likely break 2:15 in his next 'thon.

There's no way that a 3:46 can be done by any reasonably fit person.

There's an annual marathon in my local area that's held around Memorial Day. It's not a tough course, and since it's nearby and just after track season, it's often attended by many local HS runners.

We weren't a powerhouse school by any stretch of the imagination, but we were far better than most "reasonably fit" people. Our slowest 4x400 guy ran a 55-56, almost all of our XC guys (including the freshmen) ran a sub 20 5K, and we'd usually have at least one girl run a sub 2:20 800 each year.

While some of them did get under 3:46, most didn't. Two of them who couldn't do it ran a 4:5x 1600 less than a month before the race.

I sort of believe it.

I ran 3.54 off of pure 5 a side soccer training 3 times per week. Granted I was aged 26 and was reasonably fit from age 8-20 before I tore my acl. I think it could be done,especially if the runner was smart and went off slow and naively quick.