Sac-Joaquin Section ARTICLE 19 CROSS COUNTRY c. Athletes shall not wear spiked track shoes in any cross country meet held by a Section member school nor shall barefoot running be allowed in any cross country meet held in this Section.
I have no dog in this fight. I do not coach high school XC nor did I care about it much in high school. However, the topic looked interesting, so I clicked.
There seem to be 2 factions:
It is absolutely not allowed and this seems to be obeyed since nobody wears them.
It is very clearly allowed and everybody wears them while no one says a thing about it.
How can this confusion exist? How is it even possible that all of you involved with CA HS XC don't know? I most certainly am not going to watch a high school race, but I could in a month or 2 determine which of these is the deal.
One could find out what these 'Sections' are and watch a race in each. Maybe the Section Championship, if there is such a thing, as well as some random meets. An observer could, in a single season, answer this question that many people who seem to be personally involved with CA HS XC don't seem to be able to answer. How many runners and coaches from that State are reading this? One could (although I personally won't) solve this with ease. It is incredible to me that all of you - many in CA and actually interested in the topic - can't know this....
That’s what you’ve been told and what you believe. There is nothing in our section - SJS - that says it’s illegal. If ppl are quoting an NFHS rule, it’s obviously wrong or never enforced because 49 states commonly wear spikes.
It takes about 5 seconds to find out you are wrong and someone already quoted it from the SJS website so now I know you are just trolling or stupid.
That’s what you’ve been told and what you believe. There is nothing in our section - SJS - that says it’s illegal. If ppl are quoting an NFHS rule, it’s obviously wrong or never enforced because 49 states commonly wear spikes.
It takes about 5 seconds to find out you are wrong and someone already quoted it from the SJS website so now I know you are just trolling or stupid.
And to add to my confusion the CIF state meet uses the same rules that the CCS used, plus even more do’s and don’ts. The rules says NFHS rules 4-3-1, 4-3-2 and 4-3-3 rules will be followed on uniforms. It’s in bold. That the section that allows spikes.
Are shoes considered part of the uniform?
I don’t find anywhere that say spikes can’t be worn.
I’m not arguing any of this I’m just pointing out the rules that CIF has posted for the California High School CCS and state meet.
This tells me there's not much XC running in mud or snow in CA.
I've worn 1 inch spikes before in HS. There was inches of snow and ice on the ground. The race started going down a hill and the kids who did not wear long spikes slid all over the place.
It takes about 5 seconds to find out you are wrong and someone already quoted it from the SJS website so now I know you are just trolling or stupid.
And to add to my confusion the CIF state meet uses the same rules that the CCS used, plus even more do’s and don’ts. The rules says NFHS rules 4-3-1, 4-3-2 and 4-3-3 rules will be followed on uniforms. It’s in bold. That the section that allows spikes.
Are shoes considered part of the uniform?
I don’t find anywhere that say spikes can’t be worn.
I’m not arguing any of this I’m just pointing out the rules that CIF has posted for the California High School CCS and state meet.
1) for CIF southern section (and previously posted, directly from the blue book):
#1908. PROPER EQUIPMENT All athletes competing in cross country must be in proper team uniform and wear running shoes. Spikes will not be permitted.
looks like other sections may do as they will, but as far as i can tell from previous posts, some do NOT allow spikes.
2) from the NFHS, rule 4-3:
3. In cross country, the sole and heel may contain grooves, ridges or track spikes which are no longer than 1 inch. NOTE: The games committee may also determine the length of spikes allowed on all-weather surfaces. (3-2-4a)
so: x-c meets sanctioned by CIF southern section (such as woodbridge) do not allow spikes, but i doubt there is much enforcement, since they rarely would give you an advantage. but you could be DQ'd. the state meet also does not allow spikes, but that's already been accepted on this thread. but the footlocker race at mt. sac (or whatever it's called now) is NOT a CIF race, so you can wear them, but i wouldn't recommend it.
the rules flowchart: section rules supersede nfhs rules. the nfhs is an umbrella that covers anything not covered by section rules.
in other words, there really is nothing confusing about this at all, at least to any coach and athlete i know in california.
Everyone wore spikes at every xc and track race I went to in California in the mid-1980s.
I did not come close to making states, so I cannot testify about anything beyond league champs.
No one wore spikes at any cross country race I went to in California in the mid-1980s. Maybe we never went to the same meet. I don't keep up with the equipment now, but there was a reason that all the cross country racing shoes had a spiked and non-spiked version that were otherwise identical. California kids bought the non-spiked versions. I remember (spikeless) Nike Waffle Racers were popular.
Spikes really aren't necessary for most courses in California. You'll get sections of course on concrete and you obviously can't run more than a few steps in spikes on concrete. At the state meet there is a decent chunk of road right at the start, there's concrete at the NCS course in Hayward, there's concrete where I ran my league finals in HS, you get the point. Everyone just runs in flats and doesn't think twice about it, it's not a big deal
No consensus or resolution on this yet? Don't most of you commenting literally run or coach CA HS XC? How could there not be an incredibly clear answer?
Here's what I know. I made the mistake of running HS XC Sophmore year. This was in CA. Late '70s. Running buddy - my best training partner those years - talked me into it. Back then, there was no State Meet or other big thing to shoot for. No climax to the season, so to speak. As many of you know, the Kevin Costner movie was about the first year. The season was about 7 weeks long and primarily consisted of going to random so-called 'invitational' events of varying distance. 'Invitational' was comical. Was there anybody NOT allowed? They were not part of a series with points accumulated like the Diamond League. [By the way, the Weltklasse is actually an invitational. I am not allowed to run there.]
Oh, and we'd never heard of a 5k XC race. That distance became popular at some point - maybe a decade later, but I'm not really sure when. All this info is just to point out how different it was then vs. now, and what a waste of time it was. Needless to say, I was not on board all the way to Senior year.
Here's what I experienced: My gang already ran. These were by no means the first races for the aforementioned buddy and I. We normally raced on asphalt (not socially acceptable now, I realize, but very common then) and so we had road racing shoes. This is what we wore in the XC races. I didn't own a spiked shoe in HS, and I'm guessing all the guys I normally ran and went to road races with also didn't. I mean, I knew these guys pretty well and went to their houses. I've only run 1 race on Mondo, or the '70s/'80s equivalent, and I was out of HS when it happened.
So, we wore flats because we didn't have spikes, didn't know they were normally used in XC, didn't see anyone else in them, would have had to buy a shoe just for 5 races, or whatever combination of reasons. But my training group and I just dabbled in XC. It wasn't really a long enough season to completely derail your year's plan. Most of us did a winter or spring marathon (yes, I know the court of public opinion doesn't approve now, but it did during the post-Shorter running boom), and we went right back to that kinf of thing when the less-than-2-month season ended.
That's my experience. Never saw a spiked shoe during HS. I would guess they wore them in Track, but I never watched any. There was a guy on the team that Sophmore year (he may have been a Senior) who mentioned XC in some other part of the country. It was on grass golf courses where he was from, he said. And they wore spikes. Seemed a little foreign to me, but I believed him. Our meaningless races were on rock-hard dirt.
So this spikeless culture goes way back. Before 5k, before the State Meet, before Track and XC were sort of one thing with the same kids in both. Hard to believe, but.... Maybe that influences things now???
yes, there is a resolution--several have been posted.
yes, i literally run, though not in high school anymore since 1984. and yes, i literally coach at a california high school. and yes, i'm pretty sure i posted a clear answer, though i can't claim that it's incredibly clear, but any lack of clarity is probably due to literally poor reading skills, not my poor writing skills.
as for what you know: not sure any of what you wrote is relevant to the topic. while there was no state meet, there were plenty of big meets to prepare for, and many california studs from the 70s who did not look at invitationals as comical. they were probably very far ahead of you (look up ralph serna or eric hulst or a slew of others). the costner movie was not about the first year; it was about the first several years compressed into one. you are correct in noting the exclusivity of the weltklasse; for the record, i did run in it several times. yay for me...
as for everything else you wrote: thank you for an incredibly limited perspective that applies to virtually no one else who has been heavily involved and heavily invested in the sport for 40+ years. sorry it was a "waste of time" for you; strange that you continue to waste your time now on this board. stranger that i wasted my time replying. oh well...
This tells me there's not much XC running in mud or snow in CA.
I've worn 1 inch spikes before in HS. There was inches of snow and ice on the ground. The race started going down a hill and the kids who did not wear long spikes slid all over the place.
Alan
And many California cross country courses cross over (or run some distance) on asphalt or concrete.