I've updated the thread title to reflect the fact that Matt Lawton of the Times of London is reporting this is the third Kipchoge sub-2 pacer to be popped for doping. The thread was initially titled, "2016 and 2019 Rotterdam champ plus 2018 Abu Dhabi champ Marius Kipserem (2:04:04 pb) confesses to EPO usage".
Yes, and let's not forgot Rutto, another Sang athlete, who doped so hard-core that his hgb went up to 19.2 g/dl. Actually his early 18.4 g/dl along with ret-% = 0.43 was enough to get banned... At least Sang didn't claim it was all caused by altitude, lol.
Kipchoge looks more and more like El G, both with respect to dominance and doped teammates.
Yes, with Rutto, 3 pacers, one friend (Kitwara) busted, it's high time someone asked Kipchoge what he thinks of all this !
Who are the other 2 pacers that have been pinched? Are they all NN athletes?
There were two recently, Alex Korio in July and Philemon Kacheran and now Kipserem, the original list of the 41 pacers is on Wikipedia (can't link sorry)
They are of course being airbrushed on the official ineos159 site (can't link either sorry)
In the past Kipchoge's favorite pacer (Berlin 2018 for instance), Sammy Kitwara was suspended too at the end of 2019. He never came back...
Thanks for the reply. At least these 3 guys are not out of the Sang/Kipchoge group specifically. With so many pinched out of that Rosa group, surely there will be some more digging?
I forget the dudes name but just 2 weeks ago a guy training under Sang was done for too. Given a ban. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to believe Kipchoge is natural….
Yes, and let's not forgot Rutto, another Sang athlete, who doped so hard-core that his hgb went up to 19.2 g/dl. Actually his early 18.4 g/dl along with ret-% = 0.43 was enough to get banned... At least Sang didn't claim it was all caused by altitude, lol.
Come on what could he say? He did not have the same connections as off-score Paula ...
Only when the Italian coaches and or agents get thrown in jail will the doping lessen.
Do you think the athletes, at least in the beginning, know how to get product, when to use and how often? No they don’t. People are desperate, especially if they are not part of the corrupt political class. Those that have running talent use said talents to claw out of poverty. PED’s are a means to an end. Especially when prize monies are kept, no one goes to jail and it is accepted practice.
Don't kid yourselves, Ethiopia, Uganda, South Sudan, Burundi, Somalia, all have similar circumstance but not the same mechanization (my opinion) and are not as attractive a place to live, when compared to Kenya, for the European coaches and agents. I’ll add… not as attractive countries for doping control officials to travel in either.
These coaches and agents make their money off of the athletes and encourage PED’s usage. Otherwise they wouldn’t be living in Africa if they couldn’t make money by exploitation.
Kenya should run these foreign enablers out of their country. So should other countries in Africa. When that happens then the corrupt national governing body officials will have less ability to exploit and blackmail athletes for money and sex.
Now that China has a major presence in Kenya, most of Africa really, one can only assume PED’s are more readily available at the corner pharmacy then ever before.
Who are the other 2 pacers that have been pinched? Are they all NN athletes?
There were two recently, Alex Korio in July and Philemon Kacheran and now Kipserem, the original list of the 41 pacers is on Wikipedia (can't link sorry)
They are of course being airbrushed on the official ineos159 site (can't link either sorry)
In the past Kipchoge's favorite pacer (Berlin 2018 for instance), Sammy Kitwara was suspended too at the end of 2019. He never came back...
In a relay event, if one member of the relay team gets busted for PED’s the team medals, records (if they run a record) and prize monies are taken away.
Set up, paced events, in a way sound somewhat like a relay to me.
With clearly a rampant doping culture in East Africa (likely the vast majority of elite and sub-elites are taking whole cocktails of drugs), I would say that the Japanese are probably the more talented distance runners. If you gave every East African marathoner a 5 minute time penalty (which is conservative, especially for the science experiments such as Kipchoge), then the Japanese would be dominating the top of the ranking lists. If the Japanese had the same doping culture as East Africa, you would get 5 to 10 Japanese each year inside Kipchoge's WR.
How many times have you called someone who says East Africans are talented distance runners to be a racist? Now you say Japanese are talented distance runners.
The main problem with you is that you are just immensely stupid.
Let's be fair. If some Africans cheat than all Africans cheat then that applies to the US as well. Houlihan was caught cheating and her coach says he never even heard of Nandrolone. All BTC athletes are suspect. Fisher sets huge PR's and runs 26:33 and 12:53 and he is clean?
Let's be fair. If some Africans cheat than all Africans cheat then that applies to the US as well. Houlihan was caught cheating and her coach says he never even heard of Nandrolone. All BTC athletes are suspect. Fisher sets huge PR's and runs 26:33 and 12:53 and he is clean?
Fisher should not be above suspicion, but if you want to be fair you need to point out the sheer number of Kenyan positives vs. American positives among distance runners, it's not even close. Yes, Shelby cheated and I'm 99% sure one of her teammates in particular cheated as well, but I don't think as a whole American distance runners are doping on a scale that comes close to Kenya at this point.
Let's be fair. If some Africans cheat than all Africans cheat then that applies to the US as well. Houlihan was caught cheating and her coach says he never even heard of Nandrolone. All BTC athletes are suspect. Fisher sets huge PR's and runs 26:33 and 12:53 and he is clean?
It's not 'some' Kenyans anymore is it? 25 suspended this year alone, with 15 in the last few weeks, and you're comparing that to one doping case in the USA??
Let's be fair. If some Africans cheat than all Africans cheat then that applies to the US as well. Houlihan was caught cheating and her coach says he never even heard of Nandrolone. All BTC athletes are suspect. Fisher sets huge PR's and runs 26:33 and 12:53 and he is clean?
This statement is going to set some folks off but it needs to be made - throw shade however you wish. To be truthful, most western country athletes have societal pressure not to cheat at most anything generally speaking. Rule of law has such an impact. There is much more to lose short, medium, and long term. That sense of right and wrong isn’t the same on other continents - corruption and mass under education with limited way out to a decent standard of living causes desperation.
When making accusations take a step back and ask what does that athlete have to lose or gain from taking PED’s (short, medium and long term).
With clearly a rampant doping culture in East Africa (likely the vast majority of elite and sub-elites are taking whole cocktails of drugs), I would say that the Japanese are probably the more talented distance runners. If you gave every East African marathoner a 5 minute time penalty (which is conservative, especially for the science experiments such as Kipchoge), then the Japanese would be dominating the top of the ranking lists. If the Japanese had the same doping culture as East Africa, you would get 5 to 10 Japanese each year inside Kipchoge's WR.
Let's be fair. If some Africans cheat than all Africans cheat then that applies to the US as well. Houlihan was caught cheating and her coach says he never even heard of Nandrolone. All BTC athletes are suspect. Fisher sets huge PR's and runs 26:33 and 12:53 and he is clean?
Fisher should not be above suspicion, but if you want to be fair you need to point out the sheer number of Kenyan positives vs. American positives among distance runners, it's not even close. Yes, Shelby cheated and I'm 99% sure one of her teammates in particular cheated as well, but I don't think as a whole American distance runners are doping on a scale that comes close to Kenya at this point.
I suspect that running still has a situation like cycling did, where it's impossible to be elite without doping, so the more elites you have the more doping positives. Kenya is now coming to light because they're being targeted, but I don't think doping among elites is more rampant there than Ethiopia, Morocco, Uganda, Russia, Spain, etc.
Many of the few internationally competitive Americans have been under suspicion at some point (see Fancy Bears leak, which included another BTC athlete), which would make sense from this point of view.