Connor Mantz - 2:08:16 solid

Wedding stress would be more likely! :)

Honestly wouldn’t discount this. Fridays are normally my down days for training, and I raced this past Friday and felt very sub-optimal despite good weather, a fast course, and good nutrition. Definitely not horrible but I could feel the body saying “hey, what are we doing rn dude?”

Also, I’d imagine no one knows how much suffering an all out marathon truly brings until they’ve done it. Being in a lot of pain for probably an hour straight for pros is no joke. The idea that someone debuts at 2:08 and never breaks 2:08 is absolutely ridiculous.

I think body rhythms are off kilter on race day anyway (sleep, digestion, emotions etc.)

That not how many of this works

You mean like finishing second with an American record?

What's narrow minded about it? I simply stated my opinion that Mantz is a 2:06 guy at best and I base that opinion largely around visible inefficiencies in his gait. That's not an insult nor any sort of personal bias against him.

I'll indulge you by going a bit deeper. If you have any coaching or kinesiology background it is readily apparent that Mantz uses far more energy to hold a pace than his fellow competitors, primarily East Africans, that exhibit impeccable mechanics. He is covering less ground with each stride and, if I had access to high-speed video analysis, I would also venture that he spends significantly more time on the ground as well. Multiply those small comparative losses by tens of thousands of strides and it adds up to minutes over the course of a marathon. There have been numerous studies that examined the stride length stride frequency, hip angles, and ground contact time of the best Africans vs. runners from everywhere else and each one notes that a huge part of African distance running success comes down to superior biomechanics. Mantz can certainly work to improve his form and to gain additional hip mobility, but it would take years to notch small improvements and any tweaks might lead to injury and missed racing/income opportunities during his short competitive window. Barring that, he would have to overcome his present stride hitches with a superior level of fitness. Is that even possible in a sport where victory and also ran status are a function of tiny incremental gains?

Speaking of training, others have rightfully pointed out that coaches like Canova, Rosa, and Sang have revolutionized marathon preparation. Mantz is still training in a traditional Western manner: a 10K program with some longer runs and tempo efforts to "extend" his range. This thinking is outdated. I will also posit that staying in Provo and working out with college kids is also going to limit his development. It is very difficult to make progress when you are clearly the best and most developed athlete in a training group. Who is pushing you? Who can stay with you on the marathon specific work? You are essentially training alone for a lot of important work. The camps in Africa and clubs like BTC provide an environment that is much more conducive to challenge and being pushed outside of your envelope. At the risk of being bashed for it, giving up 50+ training days a year due to religious convictions also puts you at a disadvantage. This plus the usual 1-2 week breaks after track or a marathon effectively means that you are only training nine months out of the year. No other elites are doing this. I respect the role of faith in people's lives, but if taking every Sunday and most Christian holidays off is your choice, then there are fitness limitations that come with that choice.

Grit and mental toughness are the most overrated cliche in sports! Do you think that Kipchoge is not tough? Does Benson Kipruto lack the will to win? Of course not. But having a slightly better ability to deal with pain in a marathon does not make you minutes faster than the men running with less effort next to you at 2:05 pace. Americans are too in love with the legend of Pre. Our media mythologizes jocks that play with the flu or soreness. We practically lionize athletes that play a game the day after a beloved relative dies. This notion has been completely oversold and leads to a ridiculous amount of fan boy hopefulness because their hero showed tenacity in college races. I personally like how Mantz raced at BYU, especially in XC, but that is like winning at the minor league level. It shows potential but isn't a guarantee of success at the next level against better competition. It is a different sport at the pro level and most pros from elsewhere are competing for far more than moderate fame, shoe contracts, and IG followers.

I will end with this. Connor Mantz has the potential to put together a fine career and to be regarded as a top US marathon runner. My advice to him would be to skip time trial/record attempt races like Chicago and Berlin and to focus on NYC, Boston, and championship races that are not pancake flat. His ability to grind and wear down opponents on tougher courses (like the OK State XC course) will serve him well. If he makes the team, I honestly think that he could surprise on the proposed hilly course in Paris. He does not have Ryan Hall's efficiency or Galen Rupp's track speed but he could elevate himself into American marathon lore by following a path closer to Meb's.

This is a great post; one of the best I've read here in a long time. Thanks for taking the time to put together something thoughtful.

i agree with a lot of what you had to say, but i disagree that Conner's faith is a disadvantage to his athletic career. Don't you think a rest day is helpful? When i was in my marathon prime I would run a really hard saturday long run, and then use sunday as a big recovery day. I would go for a nice easy sunday walk, roll out quite a bit, do some alternating hot/cold baths and make sure to eat a ton of food to give myself the basic biosynthetic precursors to promote recovery.

Even discounting the physical benefits of recoery, I think there are tremendous mental benefits to having a day off. You cant be performing at 100% all the time, and a day dedicated to family and personal demands brings balance to someone's life. It helps center you as a personto attend to other priorities.

Completely agree. But "keeping up with the girls" was pretty tough today. Chepngetich's first mile was 4:50!!!

Congratulations and that's very good for his debut. Wish I could've seen it live as I wait for recording. As a marathon sporting fan. I have to scramble to view major marathon events live. While other sports like bowling and corn hole etc is featured on ESPN. Running will grow when it has better sponsors. Run sponsors are keeping their pockets fat by making the fans pay for viewing and not airing marathon majors live on major sports networks. That's why the sport of running isn't growing. We need better sponsors that aren't trying to make us pay for viewing. Football viewing no problem...marathon viewing...it's a scavenger hunt to see it live. Congratulations to all the outstanding marathon athletes that we didn't get to witness on a major television network today. SMH.

First, "American marathon debut record" isn't a thing, it's a piece of trivia.

Second, how's Leonard Korir's career been since then? I can't remember him troubling the podium at any WMMs, or track championships.

The marathon is a different game now: you go all in or you compete in the B-League.

Meb debuted with a 2:12 in 9th place. (Granted that was NYC on a tougher course with racing flats). I think he developed into a good marathoner (mainly because he committed to it and had a good coach and talent). Let’s give the guy his due. That was a great run.

Damn, might take the crown 👑 for LRC ratio.

Just an idle thought on this...

I always wonder why do people wait to go to the marathon? Assuming of course the marathon is what they want to run.

Why spend the majority of your 20s (or even into your early 30s) chasing after the Africans and watching their backs on the track in the 5 and the 10? Just get out of there and get onto the roads and to the marathon.

I suppose you'll still be chasing after the Africans there too, but maybe you'll have a better chance? Maybe?

I don't know, I say go to the marathon at 21 or 22, because you'll know by then if you can run with the Africans on the track in the 5 and 10, and if you can't, then get out of there.

I am happy that Connor Mantz is running the marathon at 25. His time was okay, I suppose. But if he had ran that time at 21 or 22, then I would be more excited about that than him running that at 25.

Anyway, let's see if he runs Boston next year.

He’s at or near the top of a short list of the bes tAmerican marathoners right now. 90% chance he runs Boston and New York next year.

38 is the new 28

And when was that ? Back when the winning time was 2:09?

But I wasn't super pumped by this run. I'd give it a B- or C+. Ryan Hall ran 8 seconds slowers without super shoes 15 years ago and had the lead at 30k in London. Alan Culpepper ran 2:09 in Chicago without super shoes 20 years ago.

Here is an article we had on Mantz.

letsrun.com

Conner Mantz Runs 2nd Fastest American Debut Marathon- 2:08:16

Mike Knapp

Mantz has a big week ahead. He has his marathon debut today and he gets married on Saturday.

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/10/conner-ma...

Our men's recap put his debut in perspective.

letsrun.com

Benson Kipruto Wins 2022 Chicago Marathon in 2:04:24 as Conner Mantz Runs 2:08 in Debut

LetsRun.com

Kipruto got his second major win as Conner Mantz recorded the fastest debut by an American-born athlete ever (2:08:16).

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/10/benson-ki...

7th fastest American marathoner ever in his debut. It was a great run! He has a lot of work to do to compete with the Africans but as far as Americans go, it was great!

Don't concur on the religion part. I've read articles that many Kenyans take a day off each week. Training where he does doesn't push him as much as if he were training with higher level folks but that could be good in that it may not burn him up either. He does have training partners that are good enough IMO (Jared Ward and Clayton Young and others on the BYU team).