Do you want to prevent trans-people from competing because they have an advantage, or because you don't like trans-people?

I agree 1000000%. Like you say, calling out Hiltz when she has never said transwomen should be able to compete with ciswomen, much less done it herself, makes no sense. It's that line of thinking that makes me think there's something more than just people caring about biology.

Advantage and wrong category.

Just look when Monson lost the other day to the non-female. It wasn't a women's race with Niyonsaba competing with the women but rathe a "women's and not" race.

If you don't like the bat and baseballs you were born with then that's your problem to work out. Stop abusing women by beating them in their events.

I have a very difficult time deciding which side of this issue is more annoying, the people who want trans athletes to compete against females, no matter what, or those who don't want trans athletes to compete against females, no matter what.

Ah hell, it's a draw. Let's ignore both versions of extremists and instead make decisions about the topic that involve no pre-conceived notions, and instead reflect the single and sole goal of creating a fair level of competition for as many people as possible.

I'll accept the title of the thread as a sincere question.

I want to protect an XX division in sports because it is fair, it is what we have fought for, because I coached girls and have a daughter and would want them to have a fair playing field in sports, because I know what going through puberty with testosterone does for the body and that many advantages from it can never be undone.

I have a trans person in my life and I love this person and will fight for his right to pursue an amazing, happy life. I walk in my community's Pride Parade and am considered a trusted ally.

The trans person in my life agrees that trans girls and women have no place competing against XX humans.

I believe this should be a simple issue. No chemical cheating allowed and no biological cheating such as a man competing against women. Hiltz is a woman competing against other women so there is no unfair advantage. Outside of sports, trans people should be treated fairly as well. I'm not against trans people. I'm against cheating.

I have to respond to all the BS on this thread. Clearly few people know what happens to a teen boy, transitioning to a being female. Teens transitioning most commonly take two primary medications to 1) drastically curb the body's testosterone production, and medication to boost female estrogen production. Does that sound like an advantage to you? The teen in question loses muscle strength and simultaneously gains fat.

So these teens are the ones you're afraid is going to beat Sally on the track?? LOL. You just don't know what you're talking about.

Why do we even segregate people? Let's just have humans compete against humans and may the best human win.

I don't think anybody holds the beliefs that you are condemning. Everybody agrees that since Nikki was born with the body of a woman, Nikki should compete against women. When people say "wHy IsNt sHe CoMpeTiNg aGaInSt mEn?" they are attempting to expose the hypocrisy of the other side, because the fact that she competes with women and nobody contests it, demonstrates the fact that the Compete-By-Identification side still recognizes that nikki should compete with women because to do otherwise would give her an enormous and insurmountable disadvantage. Those who support competing by identification often refuse to acknowledge the advantage held by men, but in this case it is impossible to deny because competing against men would be a career ending move.

It is nothing more than an attempt at exposing hypocrisy, and the only reason its not completely ironclad, is because Nikki doesn't identify as a man, she looks the part, and she did stop identifying as a woman, however she gets off on a technicality because she identifies as non-binary. Part of me actually wonders if she would rather identify as a man, but is avoiding making an even more obvious hypocrisy, because it would be seriously ludicrous to identify as a man and choose to compete with women while advocating for transwomen to compete aginst women.

Everybody, including Nikki herself, knows that in the case she does want to identify as a MAN, her only options are to

1.) Commit to the blatant hypocrisy of competing as a woman and force trans advocates to basically lose every argument for the rest of their lives because this creates a completely inexplicable contradiction to their thesis,

2.) Support transgender ideology and compete with the men, just as she identifies, unfortunately this would cost her professional career, but it would be admirable to continue an amateur career in men's running and maintain ideological consistency.

3.) Tell nobody that she identifies as a man, continue competing with women. There is nothing wrong with this option by the way. It may be intellectually dishonest to not expose a truth that destroys an ideology, however its perfectly reasonable to have the mental health and safety of trans people in mind, and to let the illogicy of transgender-athletics to prevail for the sake of not hurting other aspects of transgender ideology.

Simple: compete as your biological sex. I don't give a damn what sex you want to claim you are; it doesn't change what sex you ACTUALLY are.

Nikki Hiltz competes against women because she is biologically a female - this is the correct answer.

Lia Thomas is a biological male who competes against women - this is wrong. He should have been only allowed to compete on the men's team.

The whole locker room/bathroom/etc. thing is a whole different discussion.

I am completly against the concept of "trans". Its a reactionary movement resembling the hard conservatives. According to them men and women have very strict roles, abilities and interests that are different from each other. The same prejudices are used to make people change their gender. A female who wants to do sports, have short hair and play computer games suddenly thinks she is a boy because she is not supposed to do those things. Instead we should not think in such prejudices. anyone male should feel fine to do "girly" staff and the other way round.

This actually frees people from those boundaries instead of building up another that is medication, surgery and misery.

I think identifying as non binary is a legitimate thing in the way that it's a social identity that's dependent on social (thus very subjective) definitions of gender. But there are many social identities we have, such as hobbies, religion, etc.

So letting some casual runner using social identity to sign up for a community race isn't a big deal, but sorting race heats and prize money by that characteristic seems problematic and arbitrary. At the most important levels, sports are very dependent on categorizing people based on a rough idea of fairness (age, sex, weight class, etc). Nikki is right to choose their own identity but stick with their birth sex category because of this. Trans people who take hormones to switch genders are imo welcome to compete in amateur sports, but past that I'm not so sure. Until there's more scientific evidence that's my stance, and I really can't see why that's transphobic.

If I said I’m female, I’d be able to (and have already) set a WR in everything from 800-5000 as a slightly above average collegiate male.

Because intersex is a different thing than trans.

Show me one that doesn’t look like someone with stubble (a man) in a dress…oh wait.

If a bodybuilder stops doping, does he lose all of his muscle mass?

Testosterone provides tremendous advantages.

No one cares if Nikki Hiltz is competing against women. She should be, because she is a woman. There, I said it. I’m a bigot, she’s a woman.

I think people are just fed up having to bend to these peoples individual delusions

I am 100% cool with trans people competing in running or any sport. Just that all participants compete at the sex they were assigned with at birth.

I do not hate trans-people; rather, I love them. But I hate the make-believe notions of transgenderism.

My take is few don't want them not competing just competing in their biological category. Too often the laws in states are characterized improperly as banning trans people from sports and not the distinction.