I was stunned by when we did our deep dive into ultras a few years back how many people were raising the EPO question. I figured trails were as clean as the swiss snow but I was told there is hardly any testing. Is that still true? Does AIU not test these guys out of competition?
So, you basically keep going with your UTMB comment. Anything personal against Killian?
Dude was born at altitude and literally raised in the Pyranees. Outside every day in the high altitude.
Trains at a high level. His "ski mo" is great training for running. Lives in the mountains in Norway. His climbing is insane.
Just a freak of nature.
Anyone on the boards who has the experience...are the Hardrock and UTMB courses similar? I've always heard Hardrock is tougher because of the altitude and the scramble you have to deal with.
Don't get me wrong to do both and win both 7 weeks apart, setting CRs in both and the climbing involved is just beyond what I can comprehend. Remember when the media was fawning over Shalane Flanagans 7 marathons in 7 weeks? Yeah I would say this handily beats that.
The funny thing is Karl stating, "it's ridiculously fast" with his nationalist bias. The record now, by the way, is like 5:04, a full 10 minutes faster than what Kilian ran and Karl "Cherry-Picker" Meltzer doesn't question it now like he does then. It's been proven that Rickey Gates is not as great as we thought, none of his CR's hold up close to anything. Just like when Kilian got questioned at UTMB his first year.. wake up, there are no "American Trail rules" and "European Trail Rules".. get down the mountain.
This is too funny. Hours after Killian sets a new CR in an uber-competitive race that cements his GOAT status, a threat questioning his achievements appears on LRC with one of cofounders, rojo, participating. At least, you're consistent. But, God forbid, you say anything negative about Kipchoge. It's a Kipchoge's church.
Misunderstanding? In the middle of the race, he was told by Karl and race officials to STOP!...but he continue!
Plus some think he faked an Everest run, right? Shouldn't that come into this if we are questioning his ethics?
for me, his Everest run is definitely suspect (personally I don't believe it), you can fake anything on video/tv/screen. I would like to think the best of Killian because I've met him in person (Killian), super nice guy. I've raced Speedgoat, rear of the pack runner, but I would never compromise the integrity of the official course. My logic is, how could anyone do that (cut the course, it's easy to do, but why)? I've asked myself that question so many times, I wasn't raised that way, especially after Race Officials warded you! I want to cheer for the guy, but knowing what I know, I just can't get cheating/taking short cuts out of my mine.
OP here: on the comments of, “he’s just that good because of his childhood, etc.”..
I get all of that, but can that really translate into this insane stuff? He’s in his mid to upper 30’s if I remember correctly, too. His recovery is legit out-of-this-world.
and yeah.. the Everest thing.
so tbh I’m not accusing him. I just wanted to discuss about it. This gent is clearly way above the rest when it comes to recovery and long-distance.
OP here: on the comments of, “he’s just that good because of his childhood, etc.”..
I get all of that, but can that really translate into this insane stuff? He’s in his mid to upper 30’s if I remember correctly, too. His recovery is legit out-of-this-world.
and yeah.. the Everest thing.
so tbh I’m not accusing him. I just wanted to discuss about it. This gent is clearly way above the rest when it comes to recovery and long-distance.
I mean how insane is it? He was pushed at Zegama, Hardrock and UTMB this year. It’s not like he smoked the field in any of them.
Misunderstanding? In the middle of the race, he was told by Karl and race officials to STOP!...but he continue!
Plus some think he faked an Everest run, right? Shouldn't that come into this if we are questioning his ethics?
What does either of those things have to do with his course records at UTMB or Hardrock? Either he ran the times or he didn't. Pretty hard to cut the course at UTMB.
I get all of that, but can that really translate into this insane stuff? He’s in his mid to upper 30’s if I remember correctly, too. His recovery is legit out-of-this-world.
Trail running is a relatively new sport at the competitive level, so somebody extra talented can seem out of the world. Think Wilt Chamberlain in basketball. Trail races also beats you up differently than a road marathon, so it's not the best comparison. But even on the roads, imagine what LR would say if Yuki Kawauchi lived 40 years ago.
Second place in each race also beat the records at both.
Zegama was rare, near perfect conditions this year with Mangini pushing him. Nienke Brinkman smashed the womens record as well.
UTMB you had Jim set the pace for 120+k’s then Blanchard was pushing him the rest of the way.
I get that it all raises questions but each year elite trail competition gets better and better and if conditions are good then it can make for super fast time.
you're kidding, right? have you ever run mountain courses? Switchbacks are all over the course, 90 percent of racing is by yourself without fanfare! It's easy to cheat, that is why integrity is must, once that trust broken, all bets are off.