If I’m trying to become the best middle/long distance runner possible I wouldn’t waste my time, and more importantly my energy dead lifting. I’m not sure I’d lift, period.
Those types of exercises wear on your body in their own way. You need all you can for the actual running training. stairs, plyos, drills. Of course I’d do those
now if you’re just trying to be a healthy athletic person that runs, sure fire away on the deads.
Wouldn't it be beneficial for a top notch distance/middle distance runner to train like a sprinter at some point in their cycle? If so, wouldn't there be some weight training involved?
Wouldn't it be beneficial for a top notch distance/middle distance runner to train like a sprinter at some point in their cycle? If so, wouldn't there be some weight training involved?
Train like a sprinter? No. Throw in some 30-60m excels, work on explosion and intensity doing mechanics, wickets and strides? Yes.
However, much of this work should be done when the muscles and aerobic system are fatigued (often after a workout) to build neurological pathways and reinforce mechanics and body positioning
I’d say RDL is more value able than actual deadlifts.
Heavy lifting low reps is extremely beneficial for producing power.
Lifting gives you power. Football players lift because it gets them power. Mass is nothing without power. The extra mass in a running backs quads is not what helps them, it’s the power those muscles can produce.
if you’re running any event mile and below lifting is essential. Above mid distances it is more for injury prevention.
There is a lot of talk about strength training reducing injuries. However the benefits for injury prevention are only assumed based on reasoning and studies showing injury reduction in other sports. There have been studies to try to prove this theory, that weight lifting prevents injuries in runners, but there has been no evidence to support these claims in real life studies. In fact, one of the studies indicated that strength training concurrently with running increases the risk of serious injury while decreasing the risk of minor injury. I believe in the value of strength training (I have my CSCS), but you have to be extremely careful because it will increase joint and tendon stiffness and can lead to overtraining much faster than running alone. Remember if you put additional work on your body, and you can't recover fully, this will lead to injury.
Yes! Thank you! Aside from your reply, there's a lot of misinformation in the replies here. Information that has been passed along from coach to coach without any research to back it up. Bottom line is that traditional weight training does not translate to running performance and is actually detrimental.
The running motion is more of a rotational-type movement where 'slings' are involved and up and down strength training movements work against this concept. Also, it's not just me saying this, it's proven research. Look it up.
I'm just as qualified as the first guy, for whatever that's worth. And I have to say I disagree with you. The replies up to this point were fairly spot on, I was impressed by the opinions of what I assume are mostly laymen. While I do partially agree with MasterofNone, I have to say this....
Just because Robert Oberst had a bad personal experience with deadlifting and negative opinion of it, doesn't mean he should apply it to everyone. He doesn't understand other sports, and how deadlifting contributes to performance in them. That's why he got so much blow back for his take from people of many different sports that use that movement, or a variation of it, with success. He should not be speaking to the effectiveness of their training techniques if he has no understanding of the demands of that sport.
And you can talk about slings and unilateral movements all day, but that doesn't mean bilateral movements don't have their benefits. It's that simple.
Get strong in the 4-6 rep range. What I mean is that if you're always messing around with light weights and not actually using progression to get stronger then why are you even lifting?
The weight on the bar doesnt matter so long as it is a challenge for you
I’ve seen Kipchoge doing glute strengthening exercises like donkey kicks, step aerobics with light weights, and leg presses. So any exercise that strengthens the glutes is beneficial as long as it doesn’t injure you and take away from your more important running training. Don’t over think it.
I found that deadlifting affected my running negatively...more than any lift. I gave it more than a fair shot and couldn't make it work. The trap bar deadlift didn't wreck my gait nearly as badly...but it was still not worth the effort...assuming running performance was the priority.
Just speaking for myself...and I make no claims my form was perfect etc..
I’ve seen Kipchoge doing glute strengthening exercises like donkey kicks, step aerobics with light weights, and leg presses. So any exercise that strengthens the glutes is beneficial as long as it doesn’t injure you and take away from your more important running training. Don’t over think it.
Yes, super-elites like Kipchoge do some non-running activities. That's because they're already put in their 120-160 miles in the past 7 days and there are still a lot of hours in the day to possibly advance their fitness, maybe, a tiny bit more. It's the exception that proves the rule.
That's very different than what non-elites do. The rest of us tend to run a small fraction of that, then hope time spent doing deadlifts or some other cross training, are a shortcut that will make us faster without having to spend more time running. It's not going to help even remotely as much as if you spent that time running.
Get strong in the 4-6 rep range. What I mean is that if you're always messing around with light weights and not actually using progression to get stronger then why are you even lifting?
The weight on the bar doesnt matter so long as it is a challenge for you
Alan
Alan,
Would you comment further on benefits to runners of the trap bar vs say Romanian DL with regular bar. Thanks.
There is value in almost all strength movements if done properly and during the right time of the training period. But to the original poster's point, most strength coaches are not prescribing the proper lifting regimen for distance runners. Exercise selection is not the issue, it is the number of exercises and the structure of the program. 99% of the gains a runner will make in the weight room are neuromuscular. Hypertrophy will not happen, muscular endurance probably will not increase and the acidosis from these types of sessions can be damaging if an athlete is in season. Strength coaches also generally measure progress by the amount of weight lifted, instead of the quality of movement. If the head XC coach is not aware of the volume of exercises or if they are uninformed about strength training in general, lifting can be extremely detrimental to an athlete's health and progress. The weight room will never be what makes a runner, but it can absolutely be what breaks a runner.
There is value in almost all strength movements if done properly and during the right time of the training period. But to the original poster's point, most strength coaches are not prescribing the proper lifting regimen for distance runners. Exercise selection is not the issue, it is the number of exercises and the structure of the program. 99% of the gains a runner will make in the weight room are neuromuscular. Hypertrophy will not happen, muscular endurance probably will not increase and the acidosis from these types of sessions can be damaging if an athlete is in season. Strength coaches also generally measure progress by the amount of weight lifted, instead of the quality of movement. If the head XC coach is not aware of the volume of exercises or if they are uninformed about strength training in general, lifting can be extremely detrimental to an athlete's health and progress. The weight room will never be what makes a runner, but it can absolutely be what breaks a runner.
My apologies for not being very clear, I meant I disagree with biomechanics guy. Specifically about the posts up to that point being "misinformation" or bad information.
I liked both of your posts because I thought you brought up valid points that people should consider and keep in mind, both in their training and their coaching of others.
They are definitely runner's first and strength training should be considered ancillary. They aren't "hybrid athletes." They are highly specialized for one thing so they shouldn't put in strenuous efforts in the weight room while in-season, as you say. I agree, running hard and lifting hard at the same time will likely break someone down or at least affect their running negatively.
1. If you want to run fast, you need to run lots. You can reach your potential without ever lifting. Sprinters have won 100m world championships without lifting. Gymnasts never lift and perform ridiculous feats of explosive strength.
2. Lifting can help certain athletes. Especially long term runners with injury history and without a background in non-endurance sports. Some athletes might really benefit from putting on 2-5 lbs of muscle especially if they are very skinny. Improves power to weight ratio.
3. Gaining muscle while running lots is one of the hardest things to do. If you are running lots and add even 1 lb of leg muscle, you should be commended.
4. Single leg deadlifts are better than two legged deadlifts. Training single leg coordination under load has helped me. I'd rather have good control of my hips than move lots of load.
5. Sprinting is very anabolic done right. No strength exercise is better for runners than sprinting. 8 seconds hill sprints followed by 2-3 mins rest is pretty similar to a deadlift set IMO in terms of anabolic load.
6. Deadlift trains a weird type of strength. Never in running do you grind under two-legged tension for six seconds. running is an explosive single leg sport.
7. Most runners lift too hard. Lifting to failure is really hard on the body and top olympic lifters almost never lift to failure. Most high level lifting is "easy" and doesn't create days of soreness. lifting to 95% of failure is ideal for runners because it saves your body for running. Check your ego though....you aren't gonna be moving much weight.
8. Bounding is also a great strength/coordination workout.
On a Joe Rogan podcast, Strongman Robert Oberst said no program worth its salt does deadlifts. He said the risk/reward is not worth it, because injury is too easy. If you YouTube search "Rogan Oberst deadlifts" you'll see it.
You think Kipchoge, Belkale and Haile G were out there deadlifting and keeping that a secret all these years? No. The just ran a sh*t-ton (and barely ate).
The Kenyans and Ethiopians are out there running 100 mile weeks in their teens and 140-160 in their 20's. They're not deadlifting. They're not doing yoga, tons of situps and pull-ups or any of that nonsense. They're running, sleeping and not eating very much. That's it. That's the secret.
You know why 2:02-2:05 marathoners are commonplace in many countries but almost unheard of in America? Because they're out running while others are wasting their time with non-running shortcuts and gimmicks. They're not trying to be "well rounded" properly "cross trained" and "centered" individuals or blogging about their feelings and mental health. They're running their arses off!
No amount of deadlifting, yoga, core work, or any of those other gimmicks are going to make anyone run better than spending that time running.
If your body needed those movements to get better at running, your body would be asking you to do those movements while running.
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On a Joe Rogan podcast, Strongman Robert Oberst said no program worth its salt does deadlifts. He said the risk/reward is not worth it, because injury is too easy. If you YouTube search "Rogan Oberst deadlifts" you'll see it.
This has already been brought up. Here's my earlier response...
"Just because Robert Oberst had a bad personal experience with deadlifting and negative opinion of it, doesn't mean he should apply it to everyone. He doesn't understand other sports, and how deadlifting contributes to performance in them. That's why he got so much blow back for his take from people of many different sports that use that movement, or a variation of it, with success. He should not be speaking to the effectiveness of their training techniques if he has no understanding of the demands of that sport."
I'd be happy to hear other people's point of you as well.