If Willis had a better doping routine, maybe he would have a Gold medal.
Still, finishing third in two separate Olympic 1500m finals isn’t bad.
Ramzi will always have that memory of finishing first and standing on the top of the podium with the Gold medal draped around his neck. Willis had the joy of finishing third and standing next to Ramzi and across from Kiprop on that same podium.
That experience of those three will never be changed by some ruling months and years later.
Exactly.
When I show my kids that race, they see the top 3 guys get medals, and no further editorializing is needed. Our sport is super simple to understand. Willis got 3rd. He beat all but three runners in the world to do it, so he should feel fantastic about that.
If Willis had a better doping routine, maybe he would have a Gold medal.
Still, finishing third in two separate Olympic 1500m finals isn’t bad.
Ramzi will always have that memory of finishing first and standing on the top of the podium with the Gold medal draped around his neck. Willis had the joy of finishing third and standing next to Ramzi and across from Kiprop on that same podium.
That experience of those three will never be changed by some ruling months and years later.
Nah, Willis will go down as the fastest clean runner and those others as convicted dopers....forever.
Cheaters and non-cheaters. That is another reason why our sport is simple to understand.
The original silver medalist (whose name doesn't even deserve mention), was already stripped of his medal for doping. Willis was upgraded to second and awarded rightfully second place.
IMO he deserves the gold, but 14 years is a long tome to go back a correct sports history. In the same vein Frank Shorter probably deserves the Gold for the 1976 marathon.
Waldemar Cierpinski has openly admitted to doping. He should be stripped of everything he has ever won. Mind blowing he still has his medals.
Has WC openly admitted to doping? It would be nice if it were true, but I have never seen any press on this.
Kiprop was elevated from Silver to Gold when a test several months after the race showed Ramzi used PEDs. That promotion assumed Kiprop was the best clean runner that day.
Now, years later, we are saying Kiprop wasn’t clean. Does that really mean Willis was the best clean runner that day?
We can’t say. I think he was clean but can’t prove it.
If Willis had a better doping routine, maybe he would have a Gold medal.
Still, finishing third in two separate Olympic 1500m finals isn’t bad.
Ramzi will always have that memory of finishing first and standing on the top of the podium with the Gold medal draped around his neck. Willis had the joy of finishing third and standing next to Ramzi and across from Kiprop on that same podium.
That experience of those three will never be changed by some ruling months and years later.
Exactly.
When I show my kids that race, they see the top 3 guys get medals, and no further editorializing is needed. Our sport is super simple to understand. Willis got 3rd. He beat all but three runners in the world to do it, so he should feel fantastic about that.
These two comments explain why the sport almost died in the West, and why I don't feel any regret at getting downvoted or hated on this forum.
While Frank Shorter is still alive, he needs to be awarded gold for the 1976 Olympic Marathon, since Cierpinski admitted to doping, and Nick Willis should be awarded 2008 Gold for the 1500m, since Ramzi and Kiprop were busted. The fact that Kiprop was busted much later means nothing. Change the rules to remove medals from anyone caught doping, no matter how far back. And that also means clearing out all those clear 1980s doping case from systematic national doping programs.
While Frank Shorter is still alive, he needs to be awarded gold for the 1976 Olympic Marathon, since Cierpinski admitted to doping, and Nick Willis should be awarded 2008 Gold for the 1500m, since Ramzi and Kiprop were busted. The fact that Kiprop was busted much later means nothing. Change the rules to remove medals from anyone caught doping, no matter how far back. And that also means clearing out all those clear 1980s doping case from systematic national doping programs.
Lemme guess, you think that Trump won in 2020 also? Just because you don’t like a result, doesn’t mean you can “change the rules” to make them any different.
Cierpinski has never, to my knowledge, admitted to doping. However, when the wall fell, the Stasi records were opened, and there exists, in glorious german precision, all the doping that was done to/with Cierpinski, whether with his knowledge or not. Shorter should have the gold, period. He lost to a person that we have incontrovertible facts on their doping.
Kiprop, sadly, can hide behind the whole "he wasn't doping back then!" excuse, and we will never know the truth of it.
Cierpinski has never, to my knowledge, admitted to doping. However, when the wall fell, the Stasi records were opened, and there exists, in glorious german precision, all the doping that was done to/with Cierpinski, whether with his knowledge or not. Shorter should have the gold, period. He lost to a person that we have incontrovertible facts on their doping.
Kiprop, sadly, can hide behind the whole "he wasn't doping back then!" excuse, and we will never know the truth of it.
Has anyone actually ever seen those Stasi records? I've tried many times but have never found them.
Werner Wilhelm Franke Address: Helmholtz Group for Cell Biology German Cancer Research Center (DKFZ) Im Neuenheimer Feld 280 D-69120 Heidelberg, Federal Republic of Germany Tel. No.: ++49-6221-42 3212
Werner Wilhelm Franke Address: Helmholtz Group for Cell Biology German Cancer Research Center (DKFZ) Im Neuenheimer Feld 280 D-69120 Heidelberg, Federal Republic of Germany Tel. No.: ++49-6221-42 3212
Thanks. That's getting more involved in this than I really want to do. But I find it odd that getting to see something we all take to be true isn't readily available to see on the internet like pretty much everything else is.
While Frank Shorter is still alive, he needs to be awarded gold for the 1976 Olympic Marathon, since Cierpinski admitted to doping, and Nick Willis should be awarded 2008 Gold for the 1500m, since Ramzi and Kiprop were busted. The fact that Kiprop was busted much later means nothing. Change the rules to remove medals from anyone caught doping, no matter how far back. And that also means clearing out all those clear 1980s doping case from systematic national doping programs.
Lemme guess, you think that Trump won in 2020 also? Just because you don’t like a result, doesn’t mean you can “change the rules” to make them any different.
Trump lost. Get over it.
Shorter lost. get over it.
This is bizarre. You seem to reject the general principle here that dopers should not keep their medals. Should Ramzi be the 2008 Olympic champion. Kiprop lost. Deal with it. Shorter was cheated out of his 1976 marathon gold, as Willis was cheated out of his. Trump wasn't cheated out of 2020 victory. He went above and beyond the law to try to overturn a free and fair election result, to the point of fomenting insurrection to stop the certification of the election. Frank Shorter met the Olympic ideal, while Cierpinski cheated. Strip all of the Eastern European drug cheats of their medals. I'd love to see him and all the other Eastern European dopers sue to get their medals back. That would be an interesting public spectacle.
Kiprop was elevated from Silver to Gold when a test several months after the race showed Ramzi used PEDs. That promotion assumed Kiprop was the best clean runner that day.
Now, years later, we are saying Kiprop wasn’t clean. Does that really mean Willis was the best clean runner that day?
We can’t say. I think he was clean but can’t prove it.
Kiprop did not deliberately cheat . We don’t know how the drugs got into his system , maybe Willis put it in his water bottle