What is the minimum mileage I need to run sub 3?

Exclusivity wrote:

calf issues wrote:

I ran a marathon a few months ago and blew up because I didn't fuel properly. I was holding 6:45-6:50 pace for about 17 miles and then walked / jogged to the end.

Since then I have run a 37 minute 10k. I have also aquired a few niggling injuries. I want to make my training as efficient as possible with regular tempos and intervals, so what is the minimum mileage I can get away with. Last time I did 70 miles a week but I'm not going to do that this time.

Thanks

What was your 10k fitness right before or during your last build-up? That'll indicate how much you've improved since then, but it does seem like you didn't quite have sub-3 fitness last time if you only made it 2/3 of the way. But more training and time will help!

Before the marathon I was averaging 70 miles per week including a 5-10 mile tempo. The easy runs were all 8-9 minute miles and the tempo runs were 6:30-6:50 pace. I ran a 38 low 10k off that a few weeks before the marathon.

A few months later I was averaging 45 miles per week and improved my 10k to 37 minutes by adding in interval work at 5k pace or faster.

For the marathon I did 3 long runs at 23 miles and a bunch of runs at 16-19 miles. I think my fitness was good enough but I shot myself in the foot by running on an empty stomach, because I was worried about getting stomach cramps if I ate. At the end of the marathon I threw up bile and gold cold and shaky for hours.

Depends on how long have you been running and what is your ceiling. If you are new to running, and your ceiling is 2:30-2:40 you may be able to go sub-3 on 30-40 miles/week.

If you have been training hard for many years and a 37 10K is the absolute best you can run, then your ceiling is probably just under 3 hours and to get there you may need 50-60 miles/week.

About fueling, this is something you should practice on your long runs, but it seems unlikely that you would blow up at 17 miles because of fueling. If 6:45-6:50 is really your marathon pace, you should run out of gas at 20-22 miles.

Eton Hogg nailed it, you were not in 3 hour shape. If it's not your first marathon, you would have known by 10K if you had the "legs" for it on that day. Practice nutrition on long runs too.

Also, I'd like to ask how old are you? Male? Female?

Funny thing, as a younger runner I'd done a 33 min. 10K, but I doubt I could have run a 3 hour marathon, as got that 10k mark on 20mpw. Now as an old fart, I got right close to 3:30 over the 26.2, but that was on 60mpw. (with a 10K warm up of 44M.)

calf issues wrote:

I ran a marathon a few months ago and blew up because I didn't fuel properly. I was holding 6:45-6:50 pace for about 17 miles and then walked / jogged to the end.

Since then I have run a 37 minute 10k. I have also aquired a few niggling injuries. I want to make my training as efficient as possible with regular tempos and intervals, so what is the minimum mileage I can get away with. Last time I did 70 miles a week but I'm not going to do that this time.

Thanks

Every mile after 50 per week has a good degree of diminishing return. For me, the risk of injury goes up at around 60. I'd say the bare minimum for most men under 40yo is 50 miles per week (but probably 55 would be better).

as a Coach, I have gotten several runners under 3:00 (male and female) between 50-60 miles per week. it can be done if you do it right.

hope this helps.

Top of the Line Running wrote:

as a Coach, I have gotten several runners under 3:00 (male and female) between 50-60 miles per week. it can be done if you do it right.

hope this helps.

Can you suggest a weekly structure?

I had the same question today. In college I ran 14:50/3:55/8:30 for 5k, 1500, 3k respectively. I am about 4 years out of college and have put on about 10-15 pounds. I still run about 15 miles week around 7 flat pace. How many miles more do I need to run a week to qualify for Boston? Anyone taken the road back to in-shapeness after college?

Eton Hogg wrote:

The obsession with long runs is a big part of why people struggle with the marathon.

How many marathons have you run? I suspect a multiple of zero.

I’ve run four- all sub 2:45 and would say that the long runs were critical in developing the ability to race the distance.

I had slightly slower PRS than you in college.

I ran 2:53 in 75-80 degree weather in my late 20s. I did not consider this a good performance but I suppose its better than not finishing or running

I trained for 4 months at 30-40 mile weeks with a handful of long runs.

My advice for "low mileage" marathoners is to only run a long run (over 12 miles) every other weekend but to make sure you work your way up to 20 plus before your race.

I'd try to get within 3-5 pounds of your college racing weight if you can.

calf issues wrote:

I ran a marathon a few months ago and blew up because I didn't fuel properly. I was holding 6:45-6:50 pace for about 17 miles and then walked / jogged to the end.

Since then I have run a 37 minute 10k. I have also aquired a few niggling injuries. I want to make my training as efficient as possible with regular tempos and intervals, so what is the minimum mileage I can get away with. Last time I did 70 miles a week but I'm not going to do that this time.

Thanks

There's no way to answer this sort of question. There are people who've gone well under 2:50 on 20 a week and there are people who haven't gone under 3:00 on 120 miles a week. If you couldn't get under 3:00 on 70 a week I'm skeptical you'll get there on less. The only way to answer this is to find a volume you want to do and see where it gets you.

Minimum required has to do with your 1 mile capability and BMI.

A typical 4:50 miler should be able to run < 3h on ~30 miles/week.

With strength training and other conditioning alternative included, especially walking, I suspect 20/week running is the true minimum for 99% of all runners.

As a 37 10km guy, you are asking a lot whatever the mileage <3 will be a challenge.

Got to bring the mile/5000m down.

Times are changin wrote:

I ran 2:37 on 35 MPW. I did hit 40 miles one week when I did an 18 miler but 35 was the average for about 10 weeks prior.

Ha Ha,

No Way!

It should be possible as some write here that you can do it on less than 40 miles per week. I have some experience with running several "about" 3 h marathons. I suggest average about 45 miles is a good practical minimum with no extreme type of training. If you can put in some weeks at 60 or a little more I think you could benifit a lot.