It (sadly) took me 80 miles per week to go from a 20 minute 5K to a 16 minute 5K

rest wrote:

Congratulations on your achievements.

Can you describe your workouts in a bit more details?

Like paces and rest time between reps?

In the 80mpw period, typical weeks looked like this:

Monday: 8-10 miles at 8:00 to 8:45 pace

Tuesday: 3 mile warm up, 5 or 6 x 1000 or 3 x 1 mile, with 400m jogging rests, 5 mile cool down.

Wednesday: 12 miles at 8:00 to 8:45 pace

Thursday: 10 miles at 8:00 to 8:45 pace, 3-4 miles at 8:35 pace with running group

Friday: 3 mile warm up, 6 x 400 at mile pace with 400m jogs, 6 x 200m all out with 200m jogs, 5 mile cool down

Saturday: 10 miles at 8:00 to 8:45 pace

Sunday: 15 mile Long Run at 7:25 to 8:25 pace....finishing harder if possible into Sub-7 pace.

The following week would be the same, except I'd replace Tuesdays and Friday with:

Tuesday: 3 mile warm up, 4 miles at Tempo followed by 4x400 hard with 400m jogs, 3-5 mile cool down.

Friday: 3 mile warm up, 10 x 200m hill repeats, 3 mile cool down.

As for paces....

400m reps were always 71 to74 seconds.

200m reps were 31-33 seconds.

1000m reps to mile repeats were 5:15 pace to 5:25 pace. I tried to make the 5:15 reps the last reps.

Tempos were 5:50 pace, sometimes around 5:55. I had considerable drop off in pace after the 4th mile, so I'd just cap it there.

This is great results, very inspiring!

Dont be depressed that there is others who have achieved more with less weekly mileage, remember that they surely have racked up a lot more mileage than you in their career. It is just expected that you have to pick up the slack after running so few years.

Not a criticism, just an observation. In the sample week posted there is no uninterrupted running at higher percentage of race pace. Perhaps a 20 to 30 minutes run at 90% of race pace would help in coping with race pace better?

Agree. Long sub-threshold tempos (8-10 miles) were a bit of a game changer for me in regards to 5k training. Maybe consider this as a different type of stimulus if you aren't doing it already.

Curious did your weight change with all mileage? Seems like going from 20mpw to 80 would also result in a body change.

flyingfrog wrote:

Curious did your weight change with all mileage? Seems like going from 20mpw to 80 would also result in a body change.

I'm 6-0 ft tall.

Went from 170lbs to 155 lbs. Major weight drop came during 50mpw range with interval work.

Great post. Don't apologize. 16 is plenty good for LRC.

I have a progression pretty similar to you (in my late-20s now though). Have been grinding out decent mileage (70-80+, marathon builds getting over 100) for ~a decade & I've only ever run 16-low (low-2:40s marathon) for 5k. I'm clearly not talented but I love running & I love training. It's the posts like yours that keep me motivated to try to go under 16:00 & 2:40. I know tons of other people are faster & can hit those times on a lot less but it's not about that. It never has been.

Impressive work and results. The body of work you've done so far absolutely does set you up for big 10K-HM PRs right now. With a modest amount of specific work, a bigger PR in the HM and a strong marathon. If found that shifting target races (everything from mile to marathon) not only helps me stay fresh, but pays off substantially in terms of times as well. Exploring the different distances and figuring out where your strengths are over the next several years will be a lot of fun.

That was my story too, I had to run a lot more than people I knew had to run to get the times I did. But I took a lot of satisfaction from doing much better than I'd once believed possible.

Your story is inspiring but we should warn people that although running more mileage in general does work, there are a lot of us who tried that and got injured. Got some great results off higher mileage (especially 1500m/3000m) but it’s been 6 months since I’ve been able to run normally and I am still not pain free. I’m also late-30s and made the jump from 40 to 80mpw over 2.5 years. My build-up was gradual but sometimes the body just breaks. It’s a dangerous game we play.

parkerjohn wrote:

Your story is inspiring but we should warn people that although running more mileage in general does work, there are a lot of us who tried that and got injured. Got some great results off higher mileage (especially 1500m/3000m) but it’s been 6 months since I’ve been able to run normally and I am still not pain free. I’m also late-30s and made the jump from 40 to 80mpw over 2.5 years. My build-up was gradual but sometimes the body just breaks. It’s a dangerous game we play.

I agree. I have been very lucky. I did do a lot of treadmill running in the build up which I believe really helped in the quest for sub-17. I notice my shoes have lasted longer as well. I'm getting 500+ miles out of a Pegasus trainer as opposed to 350 when all on concrete. Something to think about....

A lot of easy miles were on this trail system about 10 minutes from my home which saved my legs for workouts.

Great story and very inspiring! A true testament to dedication and sticking to a plan. I myself and working back into adding base mileage, then workouts, and ultimately increasing both in hopes of a sub 16:30 5K. I hope to be running similar times in about 2-3.5 years if all goes well (will be later 30's by then).

Thank you for sharing your story, be proud of your accomplishments, and keep up the great work!

This is a bad headspace to be in. It's not good if you are 'depressed' or 'down' or 'beat yourself up' after achieving a goal. And as people point out, a goal that most people cannot achieve. If you work on your mental game, as well as take some of the training advice here, you likely can do better and actually be happy about it. There are plenty of books out there about gaining a competitive mental edge.

Great job man. There will always be people who are better than you. There are people way better than the 80 miles/ 14:xx guy as well. This sport is about personal improvement, and even being under 20:00 makes you way better than the majority of people who enter a 5k.

Never feel bad about being conscientious of putting in the work. It's what separates the top notch from the average in our society. The great from the good. The best ever from the best of the year.

Reevaluate wrote:

This is a bad headspace to be in. It's not good if you are 'depressed' or 'down' or 'beat yourself up' after achieving a goal. And as people point out, a goal that most people cannot achieve. If you work on your mental game, as well as take some of the training advice here, you likely can do better and actually be happy about it. There are plenty of books out there about gaining a competitive mental edge.

Ron Clarke was depressed for quite a while after he got his first world record. Sometimes it's the pursuit that's worthwhile and once you've attained what you were pursuing there can be quite a letdown.

Great job! Your headspace is understandable, especially as someone who also started running later in life and found myself obsessing over why running improvements came so sparingly to me even though I’d always been generally athletically fit.

I would say that you may be feeling bad about a non-problem. It is not obvious that your improvements couldn’t have come without that much mileage because the correlation hides several things including a time factor. Five years is on the longer side but not abnormally so for someone who started running in their mid thirties to go from 20’ to 16’, which is a very significant improvement. You don’t know that you couldn’t have done just as well if you continued to run say just 40 mpw. You also don’t know if you could’ve modified your training with speed or strength workouts to get here sooner with less mileage. But you did get here, even if you took the scenic route, which is commendable.

Great thread!

Good work, congrats on a big pay off for all the work you put in.

I'm 54, don't let the young guys that can roll out of bed and knock out a 15:00 5k discourage you, they too will be older soon enough.

"But, life is not fair. There are elites in my town running 80mpw and hitting 14's."

And they're probably bummed that they can't run 30 seconds faster. It's the same thing at every level unless your at the top of the heap.