NAU men are toast. Give the title to BYU now

they're grampas wrote:

They cheat because it is in their nature to cheat. They have low moral character because of their upbringing and the lack of ethical standards in their community. We know what they are doing is wrong, they also know what they are doing is wrong but simply don't care to do what is right.

By 'cheat' you mean 'break rules', correct? By 'wrong you mean the same thing, don't you? So if there are clear, actual written rules, and behavior to the contrary is objectively 'wrong, it also constitutes 'cheating. If everything you claim is consistent with what I just laid out, refer to the above post.

One of 2 options HAS TO be true.

1. No NCAA rules are contrary to anything discussed on this, or any of the many, BYU threads.

If this is the case, there is no reason every runner can't do what they are allegedly doing. (What exactly that is, besides winning with a complete lack of East African talent, is not clear to me - but whatever it is, you could do too.)

2. There are actual, literal rules being broken by BYU and their runners.

If this is the case, then whatever the rules in question are must not be enforced. If the NCAA doesn't notice or even look into the breaking of rules, then anybody could get away with doing so, right?

I suspect #1 is true, but I am no expert on NCAA rules. In either case, nothing is happening here that can't happen at Southeastern Nebraska State. If would be disturbing if #2 is, in fact true (although I doubt it). Breaking rules IS cheating. Either way, what is stopping your school from winning the whole thing every year?

lol nice troll.

I will say this is the first year that having Ryan Raff could have potentially helped BYU. They are really vulnerable at that #5 spot.

Crazy to think that Mantz has been a top collegiate athlete for over a decade now.

runnER/DR wrote:

lol nice troll.

I will say this is the first year that having Ryan Raff could have potentially helped BYU. They are really vulnerable at that #5 spot.

BYU's 4th man yesterday was Aidan Troutner who finished ahead of Drew Bosley and only a few seconds behind Brandon Garnica. Normally, Troutner would be their 5th man, but BYU rested Lucas Bons. If Bons had finished in between Garnica and Troutner, then BYU would have had 5 men in the top 10. I don't think they're hurting on their 5th man right now. There is a large gap between their 5th and 6th man however, so nobody can have a bad day.

Jayordon wrote:

runnER/DR wrote:

lol nice troll.

I will say this is the first year that having Ryan Raff could have potentially helped BYU. They are really vulnerable at that #5 spot.

BYU's 4th man yesterday was Aidan Troutner who finished ahead of Drew Bosley and only a few seconds behind Brandon Garnica. Normally, Troutner would be their 5th man, but BYU rested Lucas Bons. If Bons had finished in between Garnica and Troutner, then BYU would have had 5 men in the top 10. I don't think they're hurting on their 5th man right now. There is a large gap between their 5th and 6th man however, so nobody can have a bad day.

Bons is a middle distance guy. You absolutely don't want a mid-d guy being #5. Troutner is far more talented at XC. His development has been slow post mission. But I don't see anyway Bons would have hung with Troutner yesterday.

NAU is done wrote:

The national championship will just be a formality. BYU has it sewn up.

Order of finish will be 1 BYU 2. Notre Dame 3. NAU if they’re lucky

It's funny watching people argue like there's some hidden meaning behind scores at regionals.

another oldie wrote:

By 'cheat' you mean 'break rules', correct? By 'wrong you mean the same thing, don't you? So if there are clear, actual written rules, and behavior to the contrary is objectively 'wrong, it also constitutes 'cheating. If everything you claim is consistent with what I just laid out, refer to the above post.

The only rules being broken are rules that exist only in the heads of a few people who enjoy making up rules that exist nowhere else but in their own minds, then getting very upset when everyone ignores the rules they have invented. These are strange people with a weird hobby.

xczvzxcv wrote:

The resurgence of Bosley this year, the strong performance of Kusche, and the emergence of Raff at Regionals suggests that NAU can make it close. They have two guys with top five talent, a third possible top ten guy, and Kusche should be 15-20 at worst. ND was impressive with a four second 1-6 gap. But BYU and NAU both have several top ten candidates and so you might predict BYU-NAU-ND in that order, but any order of those teams wouldn't surprise me.

Ryan Raff is the greatest altitude racer that wot has ever been. Compare his altitude to sea level.

But where is Corey Glaugus the greatest talent that wot NAU has ever recruited?

I am deadly serious.

runnER/DR wrote:

Bons is a middle distance guy. You absolutely don't want a mid-d guy being #5. Troutner is far more talented at XC. His development has been slow post mission. But I don't see anyway Bons would have hung with Troutner yesterday.

Bons graduated from high school in 2016 so he's probably 23 or 24 and he's classified as a freshman. If he takes another year because of covid he could potentially be 27 or 28 as a senior.

Also, I heard that Mantz has a kid that started high school this year. If he had him when he was around 16 or 17 years old, that would make Mantz about 31 or 32 now.

If they are all over 40, their dominance is all the more impressive. They are competing against hundreds of runners in their athletic primes!

another oldie wrote:

If they are all over 40, their dominance is all the more impressive. They are competing against hundreds of runners in their athletic primes!

They're not over 40. They're in their late 20s & early 30s

byu old men wrote:

runnER/DR wrote:

Bons is a middle distance guy. You absolutely don't want a mid-d guy being #5. Troutner is far more talented at XC. His development has been slow post mission. But I don't see anyway Bons would have hung with Troutner yesterday.

Bons graduated from high school in 2016 so he's probably 23 or 24 and he's classified as a freshman. If he takes another year because of covid he could potentially be 27 or 28 as a senior.

Put this into perspective. Bons graduated in 2016. That means he ran his senior xc season in 2015. It’s now 2021, six years later, and he’s classified as a freshman. In what world is that fair?

I’m starting to hope that NAU does win.

The fact is that church-state separation is being used as a means of breaking rules with impunity because of the Supreme Court's refusal to permit the enforcement of universal rules on religious institutions even with regard to secular activities such as this.

Did some of these BYU runners take a break between high school and college? I don't follow XC or college track close enough to know.

If they did I don't see the problem. You get 4 years if eligibility, you don't have to take them within x years of High School. I took 4 years after high school to decide what I wanted to do so I didn't major in something I would regret. I didn't participate in sports so when I went back for my MBA at 49 I was eligible for 4 years had I chosen to do a sport. I actually considered rowing because I am good enough to make a varsity team but I had family and work commitments that weren't flexible enough.

another oldie wrote:

they're grampas wrote:

They cheat because it is in their nature to cheat. They have low moral character because of their upbringing and the lack of ethical standards in their community. We know what they are doing is wrong, they also know what they are doing is wrong but simply don't care to do what is right.

By 'cheat' you mean 'break rules', correct? By 'wrong you mean the same thing, don't you? So if there are clear, actual written rules, and behavior to the contrary is objectively 'wrong, it also constitutes 'cheating. If everything you claim is consistent with what I just laid out, refer to the above post.

Cheating is breaking a rule when you know it is a rule. This is what sleazy salazar and all the NOPers do, and what bradycheat, belicheat and the cheating cheatriots do every game. It is also what byu does. Doing wrong is more of a gray area thing, and byu is certainly serially guilty of this also. They know that they have no business and it is unfair competing against 18 and 19 year olds, but they just don't care because they have no moral compass. If it is a gray area, good people by default won't engage, and bad people by default will flout.

Well, feel free to post the rules that are constantly being broken by BYU and/or the members of their team. Just cut and paste out of the NCAA rulebook.

Were waiting.......

dhe727dhdh wrote:

Did some of these BYU runners take a break between high school and college? I don't follow XC or college track close enough to know.

If they did I don't see the problem. You get 4 years if eligibility, you don't have to take them within x years of High School. I took 4 years after high school to decide what I wanted to do so I didn't major in something I would regret. I didn't participate in sports so when I went back for my MBA at 49 I was eligible for 4 years had I chosen to do a sport. I actually considered rowing because I am good enough to make a varsity team but I had family and work commitments that weren't flexible enough.

Most of them don't take a break between high school and college, most of them start college and then go on their mormon mission. The NCAA has an exception for that stops your five year clock (from the moment you enroll in college, you have five years to complete your four years of eligibility)....

"The NCAA will not count any time spent in the armed services, official religious missions, or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government (Peace Corps, Military Sea Transport Service, etc) towards the five-year period. In other words, if you started going to college, then spent a couple years in the military or in an official religious mission, those years will not be deducted from the five-year period. An important note is that one cannot be enrolled full-time in an university during those years, otherwise they will count against the five years."

Another important caveat is that while on your time off for your mission you absolutely can NOT compete in any sort of capacity, or that will count as one of your years. That happened to Jared Ward at BYU a few years back. He ran in a fun run during his time off for his mission, and ended up losing a year over that, since he competed in an official athletic event during his "off the clock" time.