Sub-elite men trying to race elite women at the end of a road race is the worst. (from David Monti @d9monti)

***Comment deleted by LRC. Do not call people names.***

https://twitter.com/em_kertesz/status/1442161156282458122

darkwave wrote:

As a woman, a race is a race.

Please don't "let me win" or pull to the side. That's just insulting.

(of course, if I'm about to break the tape in a race, I'd prefer a guy not break it right in front of me, but you should be able to out kick me while staying to the side.)

You contradicted yourself.

You are racing the guy, but you don't want him breaking the tape? Then out race him to the tape.

But you are not racing him because you will be listed in separate results.

You can't ask for separate results and a separate tape and claim you are racing each other.

TNrunnerTundra wrote:

Saw this discussion on twitter and thought it would translate better here with more characters. Apparently someone was racing Shalane to the line at the Berlin marathon. The video is below but it is still tough to see. Might be a better version somewhere. Replies were split among men and women. Women think men should move to the side at the end of races and men say a race is a race. I always race to the line even if it is against grandma pushing a jogging stroller but I am not running with the elite groups. What do you think?

Link to video on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1442065792762273792

I saw his initial tweet last night and thought it was stupid with the lone exception of cutting in front to break the women's tape - which has already been mentioned on here.

Is that link to the guy finishing 20 feet apart from Shalane actually what he is referring to? If so, that is incredibly stupid, and they aren't even racing each other to the finish.

In a race where first man breaks a tape and first woman breaks a tape, don't break the womens' tape if you are a man.

Race to the finish if you can and if you want to. It's fun. Just don't obstruct.

Alter Klocker wrote:

Burritos and Beers wrote:

Only time where I've seen it as offensive is when a dude broke the tape that was being held for the first female. Such a dick move.

Okay, this I can agree with.

That actually just recently happened. What race was that? It was on TV. I don’t think it was a marathon though. Maybe it was July 4 race in Atlanta.

who d'unbanned wrote:

In a race where first man breaks a tape and first woman breaks a tape, don't break the womens' tape if you are a man.

Race to the finish if you can and if you want to. It's fun. Just don't obstruct.

Sometimes, the people holding the tape are morans (sp) and don't give enough room to go around the outside of the tape. Then it's fair game.

BOHICA wrote:

https://twitter.com/em_kertesz/status/1442161156282458122

Yeah that Dan Fazio guy is cray

Seriously??

I'd move aside for a woman breaking an American national record or world record. Otherwise, I'm racing.

Try to obviously wave them away, or else you will look like a dick.

...if people are holding women's race finish tape across road with no space for you to go around, then try to wave them away.

There is a real issue with men who run with the elite women's pack during races where the elite women start with the rest of the field. That is not cool. But at the end of the race, everyone gets to kick it in and no one should have to hold back just because they are in proximity to an elite runner. If a guy gets in the way of an elite female at the end of a race, that is on the race organizers for not properly managing the finish. You just need some cones and a few race volunteers to sort people out at the finish line to make sure there are no issues.

The video of Shalane is a non issue. The guy was clear on the other side of the road. Shalane was not running for a top spot. Nothing to see here.

who d'unbanned wrote:

...if people are holding women's race finish tape across road with no space for you to go around, then try to wave them away.

Sure. Most the time they won't figure it out though and if its close, the man will have to run through the woman's tape because the race organizers didn't properly plan for contingencies.

Common scenario: a woman goes out to hard and is going to win a race, but is dying in the final miles, positive splitting. A male sub elite who paced properly is going to pass her in the last mile or so. He shouldn't be penalized because the woman didn't race properly or neglected to practice pacing in her training.

Who is she and why does she hate men?

Zero people were saying the performances are equivalent. Just that men shouldn't slow down because there happens to be an elite woman near them.

Then she comes back with this :

https://twitter.com/em_kertesz/status/1442237180882022400

Totally making up an argument that zero people in that thread made.

This is not an issue at all. If the men are at the same fitness level as the elite women, of course they are going to be in the same pack. Tough nuggies, that's the sport. If its a big deal, the women should have chosen a race with a separate elite women's start - there are a bunch of them out there.

2014 Boston I caught up to Joan Benoit Samuelson about 200m before the finish and sed something creative like "go Joan". She kicked like her life depended on it and left me and several others in the dust. She's always been a competitor, and I seriously doubt she would have wanted me or any other man to "let" her finish ahead of us.

likewise, I doubt Shalane Flanagan needs/wants any favors from male runners. As others have said, yeah, of course don't break the women's winner's tape, but otherwise show respect for the other runner by racing them.

I agree, I just think you need to be obvious about trying to warn people holding the tape, to give you a lane to the outside. That way you don't look like a dick. Don't slow down unless you are about to plow into someone.

4214125running wrote:

Who is she and why does she hate men?

Zero people were saying the performances are equivalent. Just that men shouldn't slow down because there happens to be an elite woman near them.

Then she comes back with this :

https://twitter.com/em_kertesz/status/1442237180882022400

Totally making up an argument that zero people in that thread made.

She looks really bad in this tweet. Ya, 2:20s isn't really sub elite for a man and is elite for a woman, but even that level of fitness takes a lot of training. Only the most talented runner would think that is jv. We're looking at menwho were good enough to be D1 scholarship athletes, d2, naia, and d3 conference scorers, maybe even all americans.

who d'unbanned wrote:

I agree, I just think you need to be obvious about trying to warn people holding the tape, to give you a lane to the outside. That way you don't look like a dick. Don't slow down unless you are about to plow into someone.

Chances are the tweet warriors will whine even though you tried to get the tape holders to move because the tape holders didn't get trained on this scenario.