Struggling Masters Runner

After 50, you really need to change your approach to training. I recommend:

Stop flogging yourself with VO2 sessions and tempo each week. Pick one and then alternate - week 1: VO2 week 2: tempo

Focus on turnover/economy in your other quality sessions

Run as much on soft surfaces as you can

Eliminate recovery runs. Go for a bike ride, hike, or hit the elliptical instead. Older bodies do not respond to pounding very well. I see a lot of old guys slogging through junk miles out of habit and then complaining about how tired and beat up they feel.

Pick a distance and specialize. Too many masters runners try to be masters of all distances and end up with a mish-mash of ineffective training or injured as a result

Accept reality and re-orient your goals to that reality

See a doctor for an annual check up/blood work after you reach 40. To many fit men delude themselves into believing that running somehow trumps genetics, heart disease, cancer, and general age related conditions. Remember that Ed Whitlock was breaking records and feeling great...until he wasn't feeling so great and cancer claimed him quite quickly.

Lydiard used to say "If you become over trained, go for a 20 mile run so slowly that grandmothers pushing baby carriages are passing you." That said, we don't know if you're over trained. Getting the struggle to breath thing checked out seems a good idea. If it comes out that you're okay, I'd consider something along Arthur's line, and I mention this next name here with a lot of trepidation, an idea from Jeff Galloway. He came to believe that there was value, certainly for older runners, in running twice one day and taking the next one off. Galloway is not the only one who liked this idea. In the '60s there was a Scotsman called Alastair Wood whose best marathon was 2:13, won the London to Brighton, and raced well for decades. He'd train 2-3 times one day and maybe run 2 miles the next. Good luck.

It is just aging my good man. And it's a one way trip. Stick with the basic rudiments of a good diet, variety of runs, rest as needed and experiment with adjustments. There is no magic formula, special coaching, radical training method. One little item I do often to get this 70 yo heap out the door is to watch an exciting race on the internet to get the blood pumping and then go run.

You are getting older and it is hard to accept. You need to re-align your expectations. Take more days off and make sure you are getting enough sleep. Slow down and enjoy the scenery.

EZ10Miler wrote:

- The 7:00 pace is something I can handle and have handled even at my age. NOT being able to hit that is a new thing over the past 8 weeks or so. I'm just saying it's not like I went out for a run and randomly decided on 7:00 pace, I've been at this a long time I know what I am capable of running.

Your body keeps telling you it CAN'T handle 7:00 pace. That's the stubborn reality.

I'm already familiar with turning 50 and trying to keep training. I also went through a long stretch of really awful running (in my case caused by lingering effects of Covid). What I suggested to you above is based on experience.

The good news is that in my case, I was eventually able to turn things around. I went to the doctor to rule out any other problems, and I'm glad to hear you've got a physical scheduled. With running, I just went back to training for improved performance, just like any other training block, but I had to accept that I was starting from a much lower baseline. It was like I had lost 5 years of fitness gains (or gained 10 years of age) nearly overnight. I had to get used to nudging my fitness in the right direction, not pushing it. Making sure I had a day of completely recovered running before I attempted another workout. Heading out the door for a workout, getting 10 steps, and realizing I was actually going to jog a mile, rest, and then jog home. Some days I could feel the limit and nudge myself past it into a decent workout, and some days I couldn't.

It took me about 6 months to go from nothing but easy miles, to 3 x 1200 at slower than my old MP, to a 3-mile tempo run at slower than MP, to starting more challenging workouts. It's taken me 10 months to get back to what feels like normal fitness.

Hopefully you're healthy and are able to do something similar, but the impulse to work hard and keep pushing is your enemy. Even more than before, you've got to listen to your body and gently feel your way towards fitness.

It's amazing how much better you will feel with the right supplementation. Diet counts. You need to supplement with amino acids, branch chain aminos, etc. It's like turning back the clock. You'll do so much better and beat some younger competition and they will scornfully call you "boomer". Read about GH enhancer supplementation...it really works.

stan the corgi wrote:

It's amazing how much better you will feel with the right supplementation. Diet counts. You need to supplement with amino acids, branch chain aminos, etc. It's like turning back the clock. You'll do so much better and beat some younger competition and they will scornfully call you "boomer". Read about GH enhancer supplementation...it really works.

So, doping.

Someone I know dealt with similar symptoms and wound up having pulmonary embolisms, which he ran through long enough to get lung necropsy. Not saying you have that, but the fact that it came on suddenly and not gradually or after a layoff is concerning enough to take a proactive approach.

1, It's still warm in September

2, Where's the faster stuff?

3, You were doing this 2 months ago?

4, You've been running for years and you still haven't learned how to train properly?

5, Do you think at 53 be training at close to 3 hour marathon pace in warm weather 6 times a week?

stan the corgi wrote:

It's amazing how much better you will feel with the right supplementation. Diet counts. You need to supplement with amino acids, branch chain aminos, etc. It's like turning back the clock. You'll do so much better and beat some younger competition and they will scornfully call you "boomer". Read about GH enhancer supplementation...it really works.

No.

You should get comfortable with the fact that you are aging.

In the next couple of years you will see quite a decline in speed and there is nothing you can do about it. So you better get used to it.

Amino acids and branch chain are TOTALLY legal and improve your health, workout capacity, and immune system. Fine, go ahead a breakdown when you don't have to.

stan the corgi wrote:

Amino acids and branch chain are TOTALLY legal and improve your health, workout capacity, and immune system. Fine, go ahead a breakdown when you don't have to.

You do know that Amino acids are available in food don't you? Commonly called Protein.

But go ahead buy expensive supplements when you don't have to.

Just wanted to follow up:

*I cut my running way way back to where I was only jogging 3M a day for a week. I have moved that up a bit to 5M a day. That's it, no work outs, no long run- just the daily run.

* I started back on a regular lifting schedule, that includes about 15-20 min. of stretching and active warm up drills. I had completely abandoned any kind of real stretching/warm up. Usually I just go really slow the first mile or so.

*Started taking a multivitamin and iron supplement.

* Had blood work completed, and there are no issues with thyroid, T-levels or deficiencies of any kind.

*EKG showed no issues.

* Doctor wants me to complete a stress test, but I doubt it will really show anything either.

Results so far:

- I feel much better. I feel like I "have my legs under me" if that means anything anyone.

- I was having a lot of quad and knee pain and the the stretching and reduction in mileage has really reduced that. I think the pain caused my stride to short and choppy and awkward, and that lead to some of the breathing issues.

-My suspicion is that I just got out over my skis.

While the mileage and normal progression should indicated I was ready to move up to faster stuff I just am not. I just need to spend about 6 weeks upping the mileage, eventually adding a long run, then a day of hill reps, eventually 1 day of tempo work.

What's your diet like? Are you getting enough protein? How inflammatory is your diet?

Glad you're feeling better.

I hear you. I am close to your age. It's part of aging. It's possible a third downturn has started. After 40, mid 40s, and now post 50. Check age grading calculator. It says I lost like 12.xx percent and half of that is in last 6 years.

I've had 2 -3 experiences like you described. I've used HR my whole life and what was disturbing is that my easy pace HR would not come down. It was getting slower and slower. I was thinking i had a clogged artery or some other heart condition since it runs in my family. But i went with the Occam's razor principle first which was I was overtrained. I do a bunch of biking, swimming, and lift 2x week.

I did very little for like 2 weeks. I then went on a backpacking trip. When i got back, i was too sore to do anything for another week. But once i started getting back into it, the easy pace HR slowly decreased so i concluded i was not having a heart problem. So to prevent getting into this cycle again, i started doing the following.

1. Don't try to run the pace i think i can, run the pace where i'm actually at. Daniels has a good section in his books about this.

2. Mix the speed work a bit so it's not all a VO2 max workout. ie 1 m at tempo, 2 x 1/2 at 5k and 4x 400 at a bit faster than 5k

3. Work my strengths. i've always been more of a 'out easy/back hard' type of runner. These workouts don't trash me as bad as traditional speed

4. Take every 4th week very, very easy. No speed on the run, no hard bike workouts.

I'm slowly creeping back to what i deem to be respectable times for me. The more telling sign is that my HR is lower for speedwork sessions that are slightly faster than several months ago.

But the guy who mentioned the precipitous drop in performance in the 50s is dead on! At 52 i was ok but it seems like 53 on has been a roller coaster. The recovery is longer and if you don't adapt, you end up replying on threads like this one :-)

Thanks

That's good info.

I need to slowly build weekly miles. I respond to mileage really well, and after going back to my training log I looked over it, and while the works were OK in places, the weekly numbers were a bit of a mess.

And yes, I remember the Daniels discussion about running at goal vs what you are now. I think I was getting some OK work outs in, because I can make myself push through, but that wasn't really an accurate gauge of my true fitness. Those weren't sustainable paces because I just hadn't done the base work.