Don't be a prisoner of the moment. Coburn has a world gold and dominant head to head. Courtney needs at least one more year like the one she just had to potentially overtake Coburn.
Don't be a prisoner of the moment. Coburn has a world gold and dominant head to head. Courtney needs at least one more year like the one she just had to potentially overtake Coburn.
c7runner7 wrote:
itbunkso wrote:
What you all fail to realize is that coburn would likely trade in all 9 of her US championships to have the AR and an Olympic silver…
Who cares about US championships? We’re one country out of 100’s. The world stage is all that matters and frerichs has shown the ability to show up and compete against the worlds best
Would she trade in her World Title too?
Of course not. Like I said recency bias. Coburn is a world champion and has defeated Frerichs many many times. Frerichs is not even in contention although she is the only other one in the conversation. Coburn is the Carlos Lopes to whatever that other guys name was. That man was the fastest on paper but he hardly ever beat Lopes and that's what it's about.
Frerichs has the AR. She is by definition the best US steepler EVER.
Too much emphasis on the Olympics. Coburn has dominated the rivalry overall.
EC - World gold and silver. Olympic bronze. Nine US titles. Had a bad one in Tokyo this year but still at the top of her game.
CF - World silver. Olympic silver. AR. Zero US titles.
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guccislides wrote:
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
Ok so by that logic Cheptegei is the best distance runner ever on the track despite only having one world title. Moron.
Courtney is the fastest american woman of all time
Yep but she's not the best US steepler.
This dude wrote:
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
Refer back to the title morons. Frerichs is currently the #1 US women's steeple but she IS NOT the best women's US steepler ever. You gain that title through a body of work and that work does not start with a 2-18 record against your main rival.
I think the careers of Jenny Simpson's vs. Shannon Rowbury is a pretty good comparison to this "rivalry". Courtney has time though to at least win a few US titles to improve her case.
yeah-definitely in a couple years--with a few more US titles and another WC/Oly medal Courtney would surpass her, but you can't disregard Coburn being on top for the better part of a decade....
We are witnessing the changing of the guard. Emma is far more decorated but Courtney is coming into her own. Bestowing the title of "greatest" based on a national record is really stupid.
For example, Alan Webb vs. Jim Ryun? I'd rather have Ryun's career and championships record vs. Webb's AR. But, some of you think that Webb must be the best because he posted a fast run once. Where was he at WC and Olys? Nowhere to be found.
Whether or not Emma won her WC gold against a weaker field isn't relevant to the fact that she actually has one.
I think Freirichs needs to win one or an Olympic gold before this has any chance of being a valid point.
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Frerichs has had a hell of a year and a hell of a run today. I think Emma might be capable of sub 9 still as well though, and for me Emma’s gold medal and 18-2 record gives her the edge for now. Courtney has time to flip the table though.
Emma had a gold, silver, and bronze. Courtney has two silvers which is fantastic, but she would trade her medals for Coburn’s. Coburn also has 14 of the top 20 US times ever. Probably would have an 8:59 or 9:00 to her name absent the fall this year (though the fall is no excuse).
Edge Coburn but it is getting very close.
Courtney is the current NR/AR record holder and ran an epic Olympic race.
She is also not a one-hit wonder.
No disrespect to Coburn, her career to date is superior, but Courtney is not far behind and if Courtney retires as NR holder....
Right NOW Courtney is on top. Let's see what happens. Probably a lot depends on their individual motivations going forward.
Who is a better 1500m runner, Sifan Hasssn or Jenny Simpson. Jenny has more global medals, but Sifan has the faster time. But in my mind, Sifan is the better 1500m runner.
Just like that, even though Emma has more global medals (including gold), Courtney is clearly the better athlete. She has the American record (which is six second faster than Emma), and she got two global sliver medals, one of them at the Olympics.
Frerichs is clearly the best American steepler ever .
And Please don't bring their head to head records. In this discussion, It's simply irrelevant. In Track and field, we don't judge athletes on how they perform When they face each other; We judge them on how they perform when it matters the most (at global championship ) and by National and Word records they broke during their careers
* * In NBA and NFL, regular season wins don't mean nothing . You get judged on how well you performed during the playoffs.
iklb wrote:
Who is a better 1500m runner, Sifan Hasssn or Jenny Simpson. Jenny has more global medals, but Sifan has the faster time. But in my mind, Sifan is the better 1500m runner.
Just like that, even though Emma has more global medals (including gold), Courtney is clearly the better athlete. She has the American record (which is six second faster than Emma), and she got two global sliver medals, one of them at the Olympics.
Frerichs is clearly the best American steepler ever .
And Please don't bring their head to head records. In this discussion, It's simply irrelevant. In Track and field, we don't judge athletes on how they perform When they face each other; We judge them on how they perform when it matters the most (at global championship ) and by National and Word records they broke during their careers
* * In NBA and NFL, regular season wins don't mean nothing . You get judged on how well you performed during the playoffs.
lol come on man, that’s a huge false equivalency
Ok then, based on your standards, Coburn still has a better resume. You have a short memory. Coburn has a World Championship gold medal.
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
Refer back to the title morons. Frerichs is currently the #1 US womens steepler but she IS NOT the best womens US steepler ever. You gain that title through a body of work and that work does not start with a 2-18 record against your main rival.
I sure hope people start thinking like this when they try to insinuate kipchoge or Cheptegei are better runners than Bekele.
Frerichs can just argue she's better then coburn. But coburn has accomplished more as of now
coburn has clearly been more consistent and has an impressive resume, but all that aside, on paper they are pretty similar. frerichs has the AR (with a spectacular time of 857), an olympic silver and a silver from worlds. emma has three world medals including a gold at worlds, but only an olympic bronze. lets be honest no one will remember how many times she went sub 910 especially if she never goes sub 9 (a goal she is unlikely to get at this point imo).
so looking at their most memorable achievements you could argue frerichs is more impressive already and its trending downhill for emma.
