Rai Benjamin 43.36 Split

Mu is untouchable at 600m and 800m. Not the best at 400m. That would be Miller Ouibo. Sydney and Mu should both be able to get just under 49.00 out of the blocks. Almost nothing separating them at 400m.

To compare with the marks of other runners,

Wariner ran: 43.10 in the relay the same week he ran 43.45 in the 400m (Osaka 2007).

Johnson ran: 42.94 in the relay the same week he ran 43.65 in the 400m (Stuttgart 93).

Reynolds ran: 43.23 in the relay the same week he ran 44.13 in the 400m (Stuttgart 93).

Quincy Watts ran: 43.1 in the relay the same week he ran 43.71 in the 400m (Barcelona 92).

The average of the difference is 0.60 seconds.

If Benjamin had taken 0.60 seconds more, he would have run 43.96, enough to make him a silver medallist in these Olympics.

Also, 43.36 is the 11th fastest recorded time for a relay leg.

Wise Old Man wrote:

John Scott wrote:

Their main event is too competitive to risk it.

They should all channel their inner Hassan and be brave. Warholm, Benjamin, Syd, Muhammad.

Everybody is too cautious about cultivating their gold medal. KW and the women have them already, so now is time to something beyond. Let's see a 400/400 h double or for KW, an attempt at the 400 h/800. I wonder whether KW or JI would win an 800 against each other. The sport needs more of this sort of thing to increase the excitement level. Athletes going out of their comfort zones. Fans will love it.

It's easy for us to criticize not doubling, but these people have put so much time and practice into their events that it's unfair for us to complain. A single Gold Medal is absolutely amazing.

Those relay hurdlers were pretty spectacular: Benjamin (43.40); Muhammad (48.94); Bol (48.97; 49.1 in the semifinal); McLaughlin (50.21)

Wise Old Man wrote:

John Scott wrote:

Their main event is too competitive to risk it.

They should all channel their inner Hassan and be brave. Warholm, Benjamin, Syd, Muhammad.

Everybody is too cautious about cultivating their gold medal. KW and the women have them already, so now is time to something beyond. Let's see a 400/400 h double or for KW, an attempt at the 400 h/800. I wonder whether KW or JI would win an 800 against each other. The sport needs more of this sort of thing to increase the excitement level. Athletes going out of their comfort zones. Fans will love it.

Worst take I’ve seen in a long time. You clearly don’t know how energy systems work.

Clearly you are either trolling, satirical, or not a fan of the sport. The huge assumption is that the speed of the hurdles is some how empirical data of their open 4. The other assumption is that it is simple to run 6 high level 400s in a week.

All these athletes have doubled once or twice in their lives, and they know the price. Mu has openly stated she is after the 4/8 double.

The 4/4H double is NOT a wise gamble. The energy cost would result in one of these events being mediocre. And that is assuming the schedule will permit such a venture.

Lastly, I do not think any 3 of them are truly fast enough to contest the open race. They are skilled relay legs, and in the occasional one off, they can drop a time. Their skill set is specific to the hurdles, and it shows.

Just enjoy the history we are living in

I assume you made a mistake in responding to me. I did not imply he should double. I suggested he possibly could have won the 400m, but I really was implying that if he focused on that.

Wise Old Man wrote:

I don't really understand why Benjamin, Syd and Muhammad don't double in the flat 400 more often. Certainly they would be in serious contention for global medals in the flat race, no?

Do you know how much running 3 x 400s takes out of you, let alone 6 of them (+ relays)?

I kjnow this is a US centric thread - but Makwala split 43.89 OUT OF BLOCKS first leg. That allows for the changeover a few metres before the end.

Just incredible split.

The last leg split starts when the 4th runner, already at around half pace, passes the finish line and then finishes again when they get to the finish line again.

You are 100% correct.

The 400h is more closely linked with the 800 is terms of energy systems/required strength. Rai Benjamin is actually the anomaly here because with sub 20 200m wheels he could compete in the open 400 I believe and quite well - maybe not win, but certainly be competitive - but only if he did just the 400m flat.

There is no way he could be competitive trying to do the double. There is a reason we have seen both successful and commonly attempted doubles (100/200, 200/400, 400/800, 800/1500, 1500/5000, 5000/10000) in the history of the sport but never a 400m/400h double. I don't even think we have seen an athlete even enter both events and attempt it - even at a mediocre level (though someone may be able to find a name).

Fundamentally it is because even though the two race share the same distance, they are very different to each other as has been pointed out multiple occasions on this thread

Pretty sure Warholm has done the 400h/400 double attempt at European Championships where the level in the flat 400 has been mediocre by global standards.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Nobody is beating Mu at 800 for like the next 5 years, agreed?

I'd like to see match races;

1) Mu v Miller-Uibo in the 400

2) Mu v Kipyegon in the 1000

It would be so much fun.

Mu is only 19 so as she matures over the next few years she will get stronger. If she avoid injuries, she will run 48.5-48.9, and run 1:52.5-1:53.00. She will be running 56.x/56.x splits for sure.

The schedule makes the 400/400H double way too risky. If they were separated I think we would see people attempt both.

Syd, , Warholm, Muhammad have set World Records in their individual hurdle events, and Benjamin has been relatively close to a World Record.

Why take a chance to double in the open 400 when you have a much better chance of getting a gold and possibly a World Record by focusing on the 400 hurdles?

this and this wrote:

Syd, , Warholm, Muhammad have set World Records in their individual hurdle events, and Benjamin has been relatively close to a World Record.

Why take a chance to double in the open 400 when you have a much better chance of getting a gold and possibly a World Record by focusing on the 400 hurdles?

It is not a matter of doubling. Hindsight is 20/20 but it sure looks like Warholm was quite hard to defeat so it is possible that Benjamin had a better chance to win the 400m gold if that had been his focus. This is speculation of course.

Dutch Sprinter wrote:

You don't do splits by when they hand off, you do them by when the baton crosses the plane of 400m. So the last two legs are really easy to split. You just watch the baton, and when it cross the finish/start line you split. Doesn't matter who has it in their hand.

It's funny how many times I've had to explain that to high school coaches.

Jakob C. Hocker wrote:

Those relay hurdlers were pretty spectacular: Benjamin (43.40); Muhammad (48.94); Bol (48.97; 49.1 in the semifinal); McLaughlin (50.21)

+1

The talent for both 400 hurdles races is spectacular. Akin to the Coe, Ovett, Cram days in the 1500.

No.

Drop the top 2 finishers from men's and women's 400h in the 400 and the medalists change. Drop them in the 800 and 2 people disappear from the screen. Do you realize that two 400h runners were on the women's 4x4 but only one 400 runner was?

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

So let's put this into perspective as to the whole "Warholm/Benjamin over the 400m flat" bullsh$t that was going round after the hurdles final (that being that somehow these guys were WR contenders based on the hurdles.)

Benjamin has better top end speed than Warholm (Warholm is just simply stronger) - he's run sub 20.0 which Warholm isn't doing and in my opinion that translates to a slight advantage in the flat event.

So if Rai is a 43 high runner and Warholm is as good/slightly slower, this put's all these "42.9"/"breaking the WR" idiotic takes to bed.

Wayde van Niekirk 200 PR is 19.84 (100 9.94), If Benjamin has run 19.99/10.04 (how many serious attempts?) then he is at least plausibly as fast over 400m. Then factor in potentially superior endurance as a 46.17 400h athlete.