John Wesley Harding wrote:
dmitlof1 wrote:
I typically agree with your thoughtful analysis but I don’t agree in this case. Even if Kipchoge wins gold in Tokyo, he still is worse than Bekele in nearly every important metric. Assuming he wins gold this is how they stack up:
Olympic Medals:
Bekele-4 (3 golds, 1 silver)
Kipchoge-4 (2 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze)
Advantage: Bekele slightly
WC Medals:
Bekele-6 (5 golds, 1 bronze)
Kipchoge-2 (1 gold, 1 silver)
Advantage: Bekele
World XC Senior Medals:
Bekele-12 (11 golds, 1 silver)
Kipchoge-0 (1 gold in the junior race)
Advantage: Bekele
World Outdoor Records set:
Bekele-3 (5k, 10k twice, both since broken)
Kipchoge-1 (Marathon, still standing)
Advantage: Bekele slightly
PBs:
Bekele-7:25,12:37,26:17,60:09,2:01:41
Kipchoge-7:27,12:46,26:49,59:25,2:01:39
Advantage: Bekele slightly
World Marathon Major wins:
Bekele-2 (2016 Berlin, 2019 Berlin)
Kipchoge-8 (2014 Chicago, 2015 Berlin, 2015 London, 2016 London, 2017 Berlin, 2018 London, 2018 Berlin, 2019 London)
Advantage: Kipchoge
Longevity (# of years between first and last WC/Oly medal)
Bekele-6 years (2003-2009)
Kipchoge-18 years (2003-2021)
Advantage: Kipchoge
The only real case to be made for Kipchoge’s GOAT status is his number of world marathon majors and his longevity. Any other metric of greatness and Bekele is better. Not trying to discredit Kipchoge at all, he’s had an amazing career and deserves a mention among the all time greats, but for now King Kenenisa is still the greatest.
Quality info and I appreciate the response, but I don’t think you can simply pick the winners of your seven categories and tally it up that Bekele wins 5-2. These subjective discussions of the G.O.A.T.s are never apples-to-apples, and every achievement and shortcoming must be weighted differently, contextually.
I think many people are casually diminishing the weight that being the greatest marathoner ever carries in this argument. Particularly if he wins gold in Tokyo, Bikila, Shorter, Rodgers, Lopes, Gebrselassie, et al will be reduced to also-rans in this contest.
If he were merely the fastest and most consistent marathoner we’d ever seen over the past ~8 years, we’d have to make room for him on a top-10 list of greatest distance runners. But consider his classic victory over El G and Bekele way back in ‘03, his two Olympic 5k medals, and that he’s the clear choice for #2 5k man of the ‘00s decade, and it’s like multiplying his career greatness.
If he wins in Tokyo he will be the greatest marathoner in history (by a large margin), with the greatest longevity in history (World Championship 5k gold in ‘03 & Olympic Marathon gold in ‘21...find someone who can match that), and on the short-lists for greatest range in history and greatest 5k runners in history = distance running G.O.A.T.
And, even if he’ll get flack here for the sub-2 projects, I don’t think it hurts his case that multiple companies were so impressed with his ability that they sunk a lot of time, logistical effort and money to arrange unprecedented Marathon time-trials just for him. Moreover, the sub-2 marathon stunt (and the legitimate standing WR) made him far more widely known in popular culture than Bekele ever was, which isn’t what’s important, but again it doesn’t hurt.