rosshm16 wrote:
It's always the last event isn't it?
If so I think that's probably a big factor in the times/effort people run in it.
Exactly, if it was the last event on the 1st day they'd run much faster.
rosshm16 wrote:
It's always the last event isn't it?
If so I think that's probably a big factor in the times/effort people run in it.
Exactly, if it was the last event on the 1st day they'd run much faster.
I’m a sub 4 miler, now in 50s struggling to break 5.
I am impressed with what these guys can do for 1500m being that size, the training requirements for the other nine events, and doing it at the end of two grueling days.
Decathlon dudes are awesome in my book!
Runningart2004 wrote:
I don't think it's a joke, but it is an afterthought for sure.
Eaton has run 4:14 in an open 1500m
The current WR holder has run a 4:18, but again I am pretty sure that's in an open.
It's all about points.
In 2016 Eaton ran 4:23.....directly in front of 2nd and 3rd. I imagine any move those guys made would have been matched by Eaton.
Unless the overall scores are super close I don't think the 1500m really comes into play.
However, I vaguely remember an Olympics where the 1500m decided it. 92? 96?
Alan
Actually, they stepped aside to allow Eaton to break the tape as he was setting the world record. They served more as pacers than they did as competitors. They could have blown away Eaton in the final 100m. Watch it again
@dump wrote:
Perhaps he meant it answers the question "How fast can the average male run a mile?" And all the clowns who suggest any time under 5 minutes, or even under 6 or 7 minutes are delusional.
yes, this is the idea i was getting from this thread.
like, i agree with the generalization that a high school track team is mostly composed of unathletic and untalented nerds, and training hard for 4 years to run a 4:52 mile is not particularly impressive.
but this concept is often taken to an extreme saying that any "real sport" athlete is a sub-5 miler untrained because we all know a guy who quit soccer and went all-state in XC.
now with a little more focus on this thread... we have literal elite athletes just barely cracking a 5 minute mile equivalent, albeit at the end of a grueling decathlon.
-would these decathlon guys be comfortably under 5 on fresh legs? yep
-would these decathlon guys be sub-4:25 milers on purely mid-d/distance training? nearly all of them.
-now how about kids on your podunk high school soccer team? GTFO.
DumpPost? wrote:
cluelessinseattle wrote:
10 hour days in that heat, barely any rest, c’mon. Those dudes are unreal. My hat is off to them all.
Agree. I don't get the point of the OP's post.
The point was to try and find a way to feel superior to elite athletes.
They run a pace to target a certain number of points and the only guys who really push are either capable of winning the event or protecting their lead or trying to surpass another guy. That's why Bastien and Harrison (something) were racing each other. Bastien had to finish under 16 seconds behind Harrison but had plenty in the tank at the end. So, there was probably one all out guy in the whole race, the 4th place decathlete overall (Harrison).
The decathlon 1500 is great. It's sort of like watching high school runners, with uneven pacing and awful-looking pain faces. It also makes a weird sort of sense to finish the whole thing off with an endurance event. Even though the other 9 events are power events, doing it all in a day is just brutal, so the event as a whole is sort of an endurance event. Finishing with a 1500 sort of underscores the whole thing. It's like, "we've been suffering all day, and we're so tough that we're going to cap it off with one last agonizing event that none of us are really suited for at all."
pointer wrote:
DumpPost? wrote:
Agree. I don't get the point of the OP's post.
The point was to try and find a way to feel superior to elite athletes.
Exactly.
Can any track stat people point to a guy who was a distance runner primarily or first who won a very high level decathlon Ie Olympic or worlds?
My sources say it favors these athletes in this order
The bang for the buck is sprints hurdles
1. Sprints hurdlers (4 events)
2. Jumpers (3 events
3. Throwers (3 events)
4. Distance (1)
Plus lots of cross over between 1 and 2.
Give me an Ashton Eaton any day or Kevin Mayer any day....sorry Al Sal or Galen or Bill Rodgers...
not answering your question at all really but anna hall might have a shot at the US hep team and would probably make a good middle distance runner
I wish I would have tried the decathalon. I only ran one year in high school and ran a 4:48-mile, 2:04 880 (without speedwork) and 54:xx 440 (without speedwork). I had worked a couple of years as a hod carier, summer before junior year, all during junior year, and summer before senior year and was very strong upper-body wise. Was a smoker. Started running 1st day of senior year in high school and about died first run (was a smoker). Quit smoking that day. Messing around, cleared 6' in the high jump off of mile training with no high jump training or weight lifing with legs. Later in college trained for the 800m but was always getting sick and injured. Ran some 1:58 880's first race in Jan, ran some 51 400m in practice not all out in the middle of some workouts. Ran a 22.3 200m on a whim with a 47.9 400m runner without having done anything that short or fast before as the 3/4 200 in a workout. Goofing around again, me and a few guys held our own mini multi event during a practice while the traveling team was away. Again cleared 6' without practicing, jumped 21 something feet in the long jump without practicing. Could have probably have run a 1500 in 4:15 or so then. Think I could have run a 48 high 400m at that time or with a little more specific tng. Was strong upper body so think could have done ok in the throwing events (did 5 x 60 pushups in workouts then). Would have had to learn to pole vault which might not of worked out so dont know about that. Did run a hurdles race once in high school PE class and beat everyone. I think I could have learned that. I wonder when I see some of the running and jumping marks of guys who went to NCAA nationals. O-well.
@dump wrote:
DumpPost? wrote:
Agree. I don't get the point of the OP's post.
Perhaps he meant it answers the question "How fast can the average male run a mile?" And all the clowns who suggest any time under 5 minutes, or even under 6 or 7 minutes are delusional.
A bunch of power athletes are running 5 min miles off basically no training and you don't think an average guy who trained for the event can break 7? You are beyond delusional....
wikid pissah wrote:
Can any track stat people point to a guy who was a distance runner primarily or first who won a very high level decathlon Ie Olympic or worlds?
My sources say it favors these athletes in this order
The bang for the buck is sprints hurdles
1. Sprints hurdlers (4 events)
2. Jumpers (3 events
3. Throwers (3 events)
4. Distance (1)
Plus lots of cross over between 1 and 2.
Give me an Ashton Eaton any day or Kevin Mayer any day....sorry Al Sal or Galen or Bill Rodgers...
An old coach's website once noted, in terms of training a decathlete, "The hurdles, discus and pole vault are the three events that have the most effect on the other events."
http://coachr.org/deca.htmrosshm16 wrote:
It's always the last event isn't it?
If so I think that's probably a big factor in the times/effort people run in it.
Exactly. If it was an early event, they would likely run it harder. But instead they go into the 1500 pretty much set. 90% of the points are behind them. So some decide to run it hard for a personal record, or if there is a very tight race. Otherwise, why not just mail it in and run 10 or 20 seconds slower than what you're capable of? Make it hurt a bit, but not full effort.
It is like watching Brazier finish his 800m today. Once he realized there was nothing for him to gain by finishing hard, he eased up. He could have fought for 5th or 6th if he wanted to, but instead let himself fall back to last with a 1:47.
Breakfast In Bed wrote:
An old coach's website once noted, in terms of training a decathlete, "The hurdles, discus and pole vault are the three events that have the most effect on the other events."
Day 2 1-3 is certainly the most demanding sequence of events withing the decathlon; three of the technically most demanding events following each other and the body already somewhat tired from the first day. Supposedly it is also very challenging to switch focus, I think there are comparably many fouls both in discus and pole vault, which can of course ruin the chances.
(If I remember correctly the first big decathlon I watched on TV Thompson vs. Hingsen in LA 84, Hingsen did poor in pole vault, basically deciding the duel).
Runningart2004 wrote:
I don't think it's a joke, but it is an afterthought for sure.
Eaton has run 4:14 in an open 1500m
The current WR holder has run a 4:18, but again I am pretty sure that's in an open.
It's all about points.
In 2016 Eaton ran 4:23.....directly in front of 2nd and 3rd. I imagine any move those guys made would have been matched by Eaton.
Unless the overall scores are super close I don't think the 1500m really comes into play.
However, I vaguely remember an Olympics where the 1500m decided it. 92? 96?
Alan
At least two decathletes have broken 4 minutes in the actual decathlon! I believe Curtis Beach was the second best 1500m runner amongst decathletes.
Any tracksters out there with a green book...the scoring tables for decathlon?
I want to say that I heard years ago the dec score tables have some tilting towards the speed technical events...but then again I could be full of it too.
Any green book owners know the deal?
Ashton Eaton’s hardest event for him was the discus by the by. That was well know in dec world.
Awesome athlete by the way.
ScottEvil wrote:
Remember Curtis Beach?
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3406074https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5691162https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10557724
Remember Marla Runyon?
Nonathlon wrote:
Because it is. The 1500m being in the decathlon is a joke. The Dec isn't some fantastic mix of physical skills, it's a good mix of TECHNICAL skills but at the end of the day it's 9 purely explosive events and ONE random "endurance" event tossed in on top.
One could argue that having to do ten events in two days also makes the whole thing an "endurance" event.